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For me, there are terms that are tossed around without clearly being defined, at least at the level where it's being put to use. Intelligence, wisdom, experience, maturity, and more. I'd like to start this blog by giving my personal definitions – these definitions are debatable, but for this discussion, they are my standard. I think that intelligence is acquired knowledge – learning a statistic, a date, or a procedure. Experience is intelligence acquired over a longer period of time, but a form of intelligence all the same. Wisdom would be intelligence applied to experience, or a combining of both the learned knowledge and the experienced knowledge of a lifetime. And maturity is the stature with which one approaches differing conditions that they experience through their lives. So by this definition set, we can see how someone can be very intelligent yet immature, or very ignorant yet still posture themselves in a mature manner, etc. The only intrinsic set that I observe here is that where there is wisdom, there must be experience and/or intelligence as a foundation.

I came to Thoughts with a few specific goals. I wanted to discuss the forbidden topics – religion and politics. Very important issues to me, and very difficult to find maturity in conversations. Another goal was to increase my own maturity, as I have a bad temper, enhanced by bipolar disorder. Some of you remember my using the Hulk avatar, symbolic of my inner rage. I hope, and feel, that I've moved ahead in that area. I really try to just stick to topic, and defuse the insults and get back to facts. I don't seek war, but peace these days. I'm not perfect, but I'm pretty certain that cruising my blog and comment history will show growth in the desired direction. I owe my gratitude to Thoughts and a number of you for that growth.

But something unexpected along the way – I developed friendships. Now to some, that's a casual thing. But I've been somewhat antisocial over the years, due to my emotional swings. Here, I was able (after some mistakes) to maintain new friendships, and my faith and my gullibility increased. And with these friends came a certain sense of community. Greeting new arrivals, praying for others, crying as I read or write something, calling out pornography and prostitution – it's my home, and I want it to be a pleasure. Some of the pillars here, I envision in my mind like the wise men who sat on the top of the gates into Jerusalem. They were there to keep an eye, and to discuss the great subjects. I almost built my image into a cyber-Camelot. Imagine – I found some genuine compassion and friendship here. What a place! I love Thoughts, right?

Silly me. I found lots of degrees of intelligence, many much higher than my own. I fed from these minds as best I could. And experience, and wisdom. Sure; I've got friends of all ages, men, women, children, liberal, conservative, libertarian, socialist, Marxist, atheist, theist, agnostic, Muslim, Christian, Hebrew, Buddhist, straight, gay, lesbian, perhaps the largest motley crew you've ever met. So a lot of wisdom, and it's components, are in great abundance here. What I'm not finding is maturity. Or perhaps not enough. I'm not seeing, even amongst my own friends, compassion for me or my friends to each other. There are, of course, some exceptions. We are all different, it's true. We don't always agree. But when I saw (as an example) Olla getting beaten up for offering a prayer, I didn't even wait to be asked – I chased this other user down to her web site, gave her hell, and refused to back down until I got her to go back to that blog where she insulted Olla and made her apologize. THAT is how a friend comes to another's aid. If you felt that I was out of line, tell me. "Stop throwing pies" is not the kind of deep wisdom I expect from my friends when they come to my "assistance". I feel very let down by those who I'd have done so much for had they called upon me. And today, turning on me for trying to help settle your squabbles just sealed the deal for me. I'm done. Good-bye, my real friends – you know who you are. I'm done with the false friendships – I can find those anywhere. We'll talk again, but not here. This place feels tainted to me.

John
 
    Posted by nsemn8r on 2009-07-09 21:25:04 | Rating: | Views: 162
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And to me, John,It feels tainted. I came back to a very different thoughts than I knew when I had to be hospitalised with leukemia. A thoughts I was proud of, this last few months has been an embarrassment. Despite this, in the quiet background the same people have been supporting each other,reading and helping each other to improve our writing,as we have been doing all along. As I have said to others, we can look over the entire site, be supportive to many, or join small cliques which inevitably blow up. Please stay,find new people already here.
Posted by  circe  on 2009-07-09 21:37:31 
  
It seems sad.

I wish you well.
Posted by  stevehayes13  on 2009-07-09 21:41:59 
  
It%20seems%20sad.%0D%0A%0D%0AI%20wish%20you%20well.
Posted by  stevehayes13  on 2009-07-09 21:42:03 
  
You might be throwing the baby out with the bath water,(I hope you are familiar with that term).I have only been on thoughts for a couple of months and have seen several incidents that caused friction and hurt feelings.My first reaction was "I don't want to be here",but I found that there are many good,caring individuals here also.So I decided I will stay and be more selective in my comments and responses.I
will pray that this community will get back to a more positive place to visit.Nana
Posted by  nanahart  on 2009-07-09 22:21:38 
  
John, this is most disquieting. I for another do not want to see you go. If it would help to tip-toe more awhile, and stick to those you can trust to engage with the maturity you seek then please reconsider staying. Otherwise, kindly furnish me with your email so that we may keep in touch. My own is quite cryptic, going something like this:

davidshawbass@gmail.com

Hulk was taken. :(

I hope that my remarks when you were getting beaten up in that political blog were not in any way a disappointment, what for all the wonderful support you have shown me, along with your engaged interest. When speaking to that mob, I deliberately did not invoke your name much so as to castigate them for fighting instead of debating, and thereby for falling short of what I considered to be among our nation's constitutional ideals. I wanted to shift them away from pelting you with insults and reflect instead upon the ignoble manner in which they conducted themselves.

This place is what we make it. Leave and make it less; stay and help us make it more.
Posted by  davidsbass  on 2009-07-10 01:44:40 
  
deep breath John--please understand- I don't blame you. sometimes the childishness around here makes me want to scream.. I've near left once or twice- but then I read a post of bucks- or a poem of sarahs or scarlets or look at delmars beautiful combinations of scripture and art and hear wise Elaine and theHaseenz and roar with laughter at bootlady or puck and hear the county comfort of shea and richard-- and the wisdom you bring..and I realize how much I'd miss them.. and I'm selfish.. John- I need you. you are constantly reminding my what real intelligence is- what true wisdom means- what courage really is.. losing you would be like losing a piece of my heart. the first time I saw a new commewnt from you after you moved- i posted my joy at midnight- and e-mailed easy- the only one I knew would be awake.. I care that much..
Posted by  pastormike  on 2009-07-10 01:58:52 
  
I can't be reasonably expected to carry on an intelligent conversation with all of that "barking" going on around me - it's a distraction. I don't mind breaking up the dog fights, but when one of my own bites my hand for trying to break things up, I'm simply done trying to be civil around the dog pound. I will email who I believe to be actual friends with my contact email - in "my sandbox", as it was put to me so eloquently, I run the game. I guess I'm taking some of the advice I was given at the blog I asked for help in. I don't normally ask for a back-up; this person claims to have 15 friends with him/her helping out with this verbal assault, and I was but one. He/she probably had but 5 or 6, but NO ONE came to defend my honor, which was under constant attack during this exchange. He who's honor is under attack cannot sufficiently defend himself; it requires reinforcement by others who bear witness. Instead, they sat about, talking about how great each other's comments are. I can and will do better than that. I am very disappointed in the people I have found here. Not all, of course, but enough to spoil the fun I once had here.

John
Posted by  nsemn8r  on 2009-07-10 02:53:42 
  
So, if I understand you correctly, you considered what I said in the blog as having failed to defend your honor (for you are quite emphatic in saying "NO ONE came to defend my honor") and that moreover, that what I did was "...sat about, talking about how great each other's comments are." I do not recall extolling anyone's comments. Quite the contrary, I disparaged the lot of them for fighting you, and not engaging you in a debate. I had hoped to get my point across that way, and best defend your honor thereby, for you did maintain your standards, you were looking for a respectful debate. If I had instead just stood up and said, "John is an honorable man, you all aren't" they simply would have fought me too and cast stones in my direction as well. I wanted to stop them and make them think, and to associate the nobility of debate vs. fighting with our very country, since so many of them claimed to be such patriots.

Sincerely, I meant no offense or disappointment to you.
Posted by  davidsbass  on 2009-07-10 03:06:57 
  
In all fairness, you, David, DID say: "But I can debate with John politically without ever having to insult him. I respect him and he is my friend. I find his intelligence and knowledge enhancing mine, even if I do not always agree with him. He and I could have long conversations about these very serious and important issues about our country and about our President for hours without ever insulting each other." Of ll that was written up until the point of my making the above comment (user lobo7kae, who agrees with you, has put up some additional supportive comments since). But look at the blog as a whole - I was repeatedly blamed for what that other young girl was saying (I cannot control her), but nobody calls that out. I'm accused of abusing the word of God, for Christ's sake, and no one says a word. Maybe no one understands how hurtful it is to have such things said - I dunno. I got a lot of abuse, and most of the responses were either ambiguous of talking about how silly the whole fight was. I know this, for God's sake! I don't need to be told that I'm into something I should walk away from; let them insult you! I would not stand for it, and would have expected my friends to do likewise. Has anyone looked at the blog of user Nema's called "Honestly", where I fought for someone who wasn't even a friend of mine yet?! I expected too much, clearly. But I wanted to give you your credit, David. You did say something positive on my behalf, but in the chaos of it all, I lumped the whole mess together. For that I am sorry.

John
Posted by  nsemn8r  on 2009-07-10 03:27:33 
  
My poor Little Soloman>
What in the world is going on!
I first and foremorst must agree with everyone, don't go! I do not think leaving is the answer. If you read a couple of my comments lately you know I share some of your frustrations. But, I made a decision not to get involved in the As the Thoughts Turn "cyber-dramas". There is so much more here than that. Wanting to leave is a normal emotional reaction. But, please take that deep breath that pastormike requested of you. That will give your wisdom, maturity and experience a chance to calm the hurt feelings. David is correct when he says that staying will do much more than leaving will. People need the wisdom of someone like you. If we "good" ones remain and stand strong a couple of things will happen: the "bad" ones will tire of us and move on>and the young immature ones will grow and learn from our experiences.

So, again in referances to Nana's statement...stay Baby, stay! Hulk doesn't run anyway, stay and kick some ass!

Take Care
Sending You LOve Always
Posted by  princessQ62  on 2009-07-10 03:09:16 
  
John, I'm sorry I missed all that, and even more saddened that you are looking to leave. . or are leaving. I hope you reconsider and ignore those who are not to your liking or are just plain rude. I personally have felt that way over the past few months, but I've found if I ignore those who upset me, they go away or at least they are not near me.

We have been friends on here for quite some time and I for one have seen you grow and change and well I always thought you a great guy and a wonderful friend.

we will keep in touch.
Posted by  EasyToSay  on 2009-07-10 05:46:26 
  
John, I missed all of the scrapping too (it is my way to avoid such things), but, had I known you were in trouble have no doubt I would have sent ET to assist. In a heartbeat. You can't leave (says I). If you do, you will create a black hole here and we'll all be sucked in. We need you to stay with us, John. You are our voice of wisdom and our friend. Please reconsider :(
Posted by  BootLady  on 2009-07-10 07:31:14 
  
John...I will miss you, without a doubt. I know that you have ALL of those fine, intelligent qualities, and that is what I love so much about you. That piled with Compassion and integrity. I am sorry I wasn't here to back you up in the prior, I have been absent from this place for quite some time. That being said, I hope we can keep in touch somehow. I have several friends on here on facebook, not sure if you have it or not.

Peace be with you ;-)
Posted by  VegRunner  on 2009-07-10 07:49:26 
  
Keep rocking dude........there's alot more we could have discussed. All the best..
Posted by  Rockerroy666  on 2009-07-10 12:42:28 
  
John, I hope I not part of the fault but I know I am. A true friend is not afraid to offer tuff love when needed. So that is why part of what I left was just that tuff love for a friend. It takes two for a fight right? Remember you asked for my opinion either way. I did not go after you and would not of because I consider you a friend but I did start to point out a few of the other guys flaws. Anyway dont go. You are a good person. It is sad that it is coming to this for so many here.
Posted by  IrishMike6464  on 2009-07-13 21:33:50 
  
John - I agree that this site went to hell in a hand basket since I joined it last year. What started out to be a place one could express their thoughts without attack or prejudice became just the opposite. One does need to expect that on a free site to a degree unless the blogger makes their thoughts invisible.

I've been attacked by thoughts staff and friends thereof and because of it deleted all my words of wit (or words of shit as some may say). I didn't delete my account but stayed away from it for awhile until I decided what the hell, I'm not letting these people get to me. Shit my friends list goes up and down more often then the waves ride in and out with the tides. I don't pay attention to that anymore, never did really.

It does appear to me that there are a lot of idiots as well as spammers hitting this site these days. Some people live to criticize others posts, blogs or what ever one chooses to call it. I've done that myself but I don't make it a habit to bitch at all the blogs I read.

Now days I socialize more with those that are more like me and disregard the rest. It doesn't matter who the people are that don't like me or who they think they are. I ignore their comments or better still, delete them.

Keep your chin up bud! I think your an ok kind of guy (hulk and all).
Posted by  EdwardNorton  on 2009-07-15 15:09:36 
  
I can empathise john but think you are jumping the gun, i think if you have issues with anger and bipolar tendencies you must asses who you let into your world, if you narrow your friends list down to the people who truly matter and whom you find to be an inspiration and a lift in your life and read of only them it kinda solves the problem.
I don't read people who get under my skin it is unnecessary I however am a peaceful soul so people generally don't get to me that easily, even my friends laugh at how relaxed I am about situations but we cant all be this way, I accept people in all walks of life and although I may not want to live with them does not mean I cannot be a supportive wall in which to lean upon.
I try to keep an open mind and always seek to do the right thing whether people construed it that way or not may be part of my flaw I'm always thinking about how best to keep things cool but man are there some hot heads out there haha...
There are many blog sites out there John you dint have to be here people come here for many different reasons I came here to creatively express my poetry and writings in many different forms and to make friends which I have accomplished, others it seems are here just to be an annoyance and I hope you can avoid those who vex you and stay...
Its a big world we cant all get along and too many matches rubbing up against each other in a box will cause a fire...
Love to you I hope you change your mind, if not I bid you a fond farewell and hope you find peace and long life..

Sara.x.
Posted by  sarafeline  on 2009-07-16 14:25:20 
  
John if you ever come back here to read this comment know that I thank you for your email, but I have issues sending emails. My email server stays messed up so that is why I have not mailed you.

You are missed here and I loved your positive and kind views. You are an inspiration for sure. I will not forget you:)

I understand why you had to go as this place can be very hard on people sometimes.

You take care and keep up giving that kind heart of yours. xo
Posted by  michelle8angels  on 2009-09-02 11:06:21 
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nsemn8r
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