This is my response to your comment, and I just want to make this point, I'm not here to try and sway you away from your beliefs. I'm not trying to prove you wrong or anyone else wrong, because let's be honest, no one really knows. This is my journey. But I love your comment and I would like to offer you a challenge as well.
I did know about 12/25 not really being Jesus' birthday, in fact, they really don't know when he was born.
You stated: "I've had have been with God (Jesus) and not Krishna or Horace."
This is because you are a Christian. You believe in Jesus. But Indians believe in Krishna, so they feel that Krishna is the God that is with them,
"explore Christianity, spare his soul from hell. Because of the cost of disbelief was too high, if he happened to be wrong. " reffering to Pascal.
Ok, so if you (not really you, just in general) do good your whole life. You don't lie, steal, cheat, murder, etc., but you DON'T believe in Jesus, would someone still go to hell? Even though this person has done nothing wrong....you follow me.
"If you're right in your disbelief, what's the outcome? Is ANYONE going to be on the other side saying, "You were right, Luci, there is no god, no heaven, no point to your living. You are now released to float/reincarnate/fill in the blank eternally."
That's the key question...is anyone going to be on the other side, and my answer is I don't know. Does anyone really know? I am not looking for someone on the other side. I want to focus on this life. This is the life that I have been given...this is where I have to make the most of it. Do I want to fill it with hatred and negativity? Absolutely not. I try to fill it with love and positivity. There's nothing wrong with that. I can't concern myself with what my after life is going to be...I don't want to be good because there is a reward in the end. I want to do good for me, because I like the way it makes me feel. I want to be a great mom and hopefully provide my son with everything he needs. That's all I want in life. But people tell me I'm going to hell because I don't believe in Jesus. That doesn't make sense to me.
OR "Luci, I'm sorry that you were wrong. In your quest to find THE truth, you found no truth. You will be eternally separated from what that was, and will be tormented by your questions. Having nothing to believe in, you have nothing to receive."
"eternally separated" that's a really long time for living a good decent life. I have plenty to believe in...and again, I don't want a reward for it, I feel life itself is a reward.
btw, I did not take your post in any judgmental way and hope you don't take mine in that way.
For 1600 years, you have had the dark ages, the crusades, the inquisition, and all the Wars have been fought in the name of God.
Religion (not God, or whatever is out there) is the most form of control. It controls the masses. It detaches people from one another and the earth. It makes you fear authority. It doesn't allow you to question things. It also leads humans to believe that they are responsible for nothing because God is in control of everything and in turn, horrific crimes against humanity are justified in the name of Divine pursuit.
"You don't see that something's wrong, earth's spinning out of control, everything's for sale, even souls." The Roots
Religion is blinding people.
Posted by LuckyLuci on 2008-07-06 21:18:02 | Rating: | Views: 213
After all that is the main and almost exclusive reason for the Murder of every messenger/teacher that has ever been on earth. Each one of them Krishna,Bhudda,Jesus and many others all spoke against the organised relions of their time.
They all said each in thier own words 'Trust in yourselves, your soul, that of you wich is God.'
They all said 'What you do to others, you do to yourself and what you do to yourself you do to Me.'
They all said 'We are all one, there is no division, we are of each other as we are of God'
They all spoke directly against the leaders of the relgions at the time, pointing out their greed, self interest, and abuse of their positions. Then once they were murderd and the leaders saw the people had begun to realise they could and should think for themsleves, the leaders then took up the name of the murderd and used it to once again manipulate the people who were used to listening to them, again to perpertuate thier own power.
Sure Jesus said 'I am the Light and the Way' he also said 'You will do as I have and greater' and mostly he said 'Trust in me'
Jesus like all the other great teachers, teach be example, when you truely trust in someone you tend to do as they do and if all they do is everything they can to bring out the Best in themselves and those around them, that is what you too will become, in that he is the way. It is not Them, physically, just Their example, wich each and everyone of us is capable of finding for ourselves. That though requires trust in ourselves, our soul, that of us wich is God, in God.
There we go right back to the start and go looking outside for him, asking others.
Take a little time, go some where quite and ask God for yourself, no intermediaries are needed, something else they all tought 'Don't ask me, ask God for yourself'.
Stop arguing about Religion, you wont find what you need for yourself there, it is a waste of time and a fruitless diversion.
I didn't say "every good deed" is done because of religion.
You know the hearts of all other humans and you can conclude that "compassion for others" is never tied to a person's faith?
Because you despise religion and have your own internal (apparently non-religious) source of compassion does not mean that religious folks couldn't possibly have a religious source for theirs.
Let me rephrase, most good deeds are done from compassion, cause let's face it, some do it for the reward in the end.
But compassion whether from religion or not is still compassion. That's a bold assumption of you, after I stated that good deeds can be done in the name of religion, i never said a persons faith wasn't involved or couldn't be involved. And faith and religion have nothing to do with each other. you can have faith without religion. And who said I "despise" religion, I said I want to expose it.
You attribute "the dark ages," "all the Wars fought in the name of God," "the inquisition" and the "crusades" to religion. So religion can be the source of all kinds of bad things, but it can't be a source of compassion?
To use your words, "compassion...is still compassion." If that's true, evil is evil, hatred is hatred, war is war, inhumanity is inhumanity. If the source of the compassion is irrelevant so to is the source of all things that are bad about this world. You can't say religion only does bad things but not good things, at least not with any credibility or honesty.
What are you trying to "expose" by exposing religion? You trying to convince people that a human creation like religion is a bad thing? Fine. Government's a human creation and many horrible, awful things are done by governments. Society is a human creation with lots of bad characteristics. Governments "control the masses." Society dictates how we all are supposed to act, at least most of the time. But these are good human creations?
People do bad things. If you're railing against religion, you're really railing against human nature.
Ah, yes, I always enjoy the, "You are going to Hell because you aren't a Christian" or one of the many other things that they could put in that statement, but wait, isn't that a,no, it can't be, judgement call, I don't believe that they have the license to be making those. Or the many times that I have heard some random Christian saying to some random Atheist, "You don't believe in God, you are going to Hell!" Well, they don't believe in God, so they don't believe in Heaven or Hell, so they aren't exactly quaking in their boots. There is alos the fact that a lot of times, and, no, I'm not saying that this is the case of every Christian, I am just saying that I know of several who adopt this policy, where they don't really embrace Jesus's practice of going out and trying to understand people and fel what they feel, like, say, prostitutes, he made friends and tried to help them as opposing to condemning them, that seems to be the better way to go if you want to sell yourself, whoa, run-on sentence, hehe! Anyhoo...
white, religion is not the source of all bad things, only man is capable of that for empowerment. And only man can use religion to justify horrific crimes. And yes, you are correct, I do not believe that compassion stems from religion, but rather human nature.
"compassion: sympathetic consciousness of others' distress together with a desire to alleviate it."
I believe that compassion was around way before religion was.
I'm trying to expose the fraud of religion, christianity, and what it has done to spirituality. it serves to detach us from one another and detach us from our natural elements.
don't even get me started on the government. Of course there are many human creations that are bad, such as child porn on the internet. And of course people do bad things, but I think your wrong. You cannot compare religion with human nature. they are two completely different things.
Luci, if religion is a human creation, it is and can only be shaped by human nature. If if doesn't come from "God" then it must come from people. Like anything else, it mirrors humanity. There's both good and bad in it.
What "spirituality" do we have outside of religion? If Christianity is a "fraud" show me the belief system that most closely resembles reality. How do you even know we are spiritual beings? Whatever inside of you -- or outside of you -- that convinces you that we are spiritual might be a fraud just like you claim Christianity to be.
If a belief system that is shared by over a billion people on the planet and has existed for 2,000 plus years is not a reliable guide in spiritual matters, why would the opinion of a few people like yourself (no disrespect or nastiness intended by that) be any help? So billions of people over the years have gotten it wrong, but an enlightened few have seen the truth? I thought only whacky Christians implied such outrageous notions.
Hehe, thanks for the name recognition, anyway, hey, I think that you have valid points, even though there are probably many closed eyes and ears to them, but that's one of the problems, right? I mean, I remember saying that to some dude who wanted me to give him half an hour and he could change my mind, well, I asked him for the same courtesy and he said, "No, my mind cannot be changed." Well, he knew my answer, too, then, didn't he?
I have a personal policy not to discuss religion with anyone primiarly it seems rather pointless because most people have already made up their minds about it. No coaxing or argument will change that. I'll depart from my normal approach (which is to say nothing about this topic) and make a few statements just to let you know where I stand. I'm a Christian and have been since I was seven. I've attended many different denominations through the years and find most to be rather dull and mindless. In spite of my exposure to organized religion, I always return to the same internal questions to re-center my personal beliefs if I find myself confused or beat down by anyone else's view of God. I do not denounce anyone's beliefs and have never insisted that anyone believe as I do. I find comfort, peace, and assurance in my personal choice and my personal relationship with God through his son, Jesus Christ. I use the Bible as a guidebook for living. I rarely attempt to explain my personal spiritual journey in detail mostly because those that profess Christianity usually will insist that I've missed the mark in one way or another and those who disbelieve Christianity often ridicule my beliefs. Either way it usually results in negativity which I try to avoid. I wish you well as you search for spiritual significance. We are all on a similar journey but each must decide for himself within himself what to believe or not believe. Blessings to you!
You don't, and haven't understood what I am saying. God and religion have nothing do with each other. If Jesus existed, even he spoke out against religion. And I am completely turned off by you so don't even bothering commenting back, "Whatever inside of you-or outside of you" are you fucking crazy? And I am the one you were implying to be whacky? You are suggesting that there is some outside force convincing me otherwise?
you are trying to prove to me that christianity is right, you will never do that. If billions of people believe it, i don't care. If those billions of people jumped off a bridge, I wouldn't jump with them.
You have a another good point, hey, I'm sure that this dude Jesus existed, but that pretty much means diddly-squat, I'm sure that he was a totally tubular guy, but that doesn't mean that all the other stuff happened as well, just because a number of things that happened in the bible may be legit, doesn't mean that it all is. We have tobs of editors and fact checkers on books that were written just a year ago and there is usually all kinds of incorrect info, so imagine how a book is doing that's been sent through the centuries getting overhauls all of the time.
Hey, sorry if I go off topic, I just get all excited!
No apologies nerdnutt. :) I agree...Jesus was against religion. Not the message, but of the organization itself because of the corruption involved. Let's take the vatican for example, if the pope was a ceo of a company and he hid his employees who were molesting boys, he would have been in jail. What the pope or the vatican did by simply removing the priests who were allegedly molesting boys and placed them else where, is wrong. The problem should have been dealt with. And to add to your editing and fact checking, after years of the vatican stating that if you believe in UFO's, you don't believe in God, now all of a sudden, they have changed their minds. It is ok to believe in ufo's...i just don't get it.
Luci, you really do make me feel so sad. It sounds like you are angry with God yet not prepared to admit His existance. It's hard for people like me who confess to being Christians to hear God's name spoken in a way that is not gentle and kind. I know you would defend your best friend to the hilt, cause that is the sort of person you are, so can you understand why I feel a need to defend the name of Jesus without confrontation? I personally don't believe in religion but I do believe in Jesus. Without him, I am nothing. I wish you peace.
no, overthehill- don't make that call. don't say Luci's "mad at God", not "prepared to admit His existence."
Luci, you began with the question "Where is God". were u just referring to where is God IN religion? I can somewhat see where ur coming from there. I won't make some generalized critiques of that opinion tho, like WASP did, that only gets the fences up.
everybody take a deep breath...AHHHH, that's better. cwzywbt, i don't usually debate either. Waste-a-time
i won't argue points for religion at all tho. but i will say that a relationship with Christ is not religion. It is "deep calling out to deep"
where do u think this yearning to know the truth comes from. Your life is going well, you're a good wife and mom who has values and morals. Those are THE very things that religion is SUPPOSED to "teach", so u obviously don't need it (nor would i recommend it, and don't see you running to the nearest "ST. Whoever's") Why should u be questioning this stuff? My guess is that He's calling to His child. He loves your soul.
It's not about an eternal reward, for me either.(Although we are basically a self-driven people as a whole. Even when it's "good" stuff we're doing, we get a little rush out of it. We were designed that way.)Rather , (outside of not going to hell, and that's a bit of a motivator:) the reasons I believe what i do are because He showed Himself to me. Only cuz I was looking for Him tho, actually i didn't even know it was Him i was searching for.
I spent time, on my own journey, looking for the supernatural b/c i am a supernatural being!! But Eastern religions didn't fill the void like He did. The New Age practices didn't help much. My Muslim boyfriend (tho intriguing) didn't seem to stir me. And when i tried to "self-medicate", my wanton spirit was only temporarily filled with pharmacology.
This is part of why Christ said "I am the truth and the way." Not to be "bragging" or judgemental (nerdnutt), but to answer the age old question that a lot of us are still asking..."what is the truth? which way should i believe? should i believe? AND where is God?"
I brought up Pascal, and his wager, because sometimes we're being so analytical. We want proof and evidence. But even when Jesus was performing miracles and signs and wonders followed Him, the religious (analytical, needing proof people) didn't believe.
But, to answer the question...your question, Luci...you'll only believe the answer you want to believe. I choose to believe the answer i've been given. I'm not naive enough to think i have any clue what it's ALL about. I only see things now, dimly, as through a mirror. But I sure wanna see the Reflector.
again, sorry bout the long post (i can't believe u named a post after me)lol...oh and Long, good points.
what is it about u Luci??? usually, i'd be biting my tongue (tying up my typing fingers), but for you...carpal tunnel any day!
loveandblessings, paperlily
Having said all that. With regards to your specific comments about ""
i don't think religion alone can be blamed for this. Religion, as we know it, has been created by man. God never "ordered up" religion. He has always just wanted His love returned. The Ten Commandments are actually Him revealing His character to us.
Anyway, let us pretend that religion is NOT man-made. Even within this scope of reasoning, men are still involved. There's no mandate given to man in the Bible for free-for-all murder of non-believers. (i.e The Crusades). Man used his capacity for choice in these decisions to commit mass crimes against humanity, attempting to justify them with their religion ( it's safe to assume that it was not faith or a right relationship/understanding of God which brought them to these actions). It's wrong whether these horrors were blamed on the Divine, personal, establish-mental, or any other invented "pursuit".
Remember that Satan is the prince of this world, and has quite a bit of influence in the minds of men and women. He works tirelessly to blind the minds and cause confusions like these which make people turn away from God.
in my experiences with Christianity I have in no way been made to fear authority, rather taught to honor and submit. big difference.
I have certainly been allowed to question some things that don't always make sense to me. When I ask God tho, I always get the answers in such a cool way that blows my mind.
and as opposed to being detached from others and the earth, I have a greater love, respect, appreciation, understanding for both of these God made creations. Love does that...not religion. and please don't think i am implying that u have no love. my point is that MY ability to love has been magnified. that's just my experience tho'.That's the thing I want to expose... i want everyone to have this experience!!
ok, i'm not gonna litter up your page anymore!! this is your journey and i may be turning into an unwanted travelling companion. just tell me to go back to my room! lol
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