Howdy, most people who claim there is no God have some deep hatred of religion. I figure they were beaten up by the preacher's son or something.

Other's have a less rational position of God won't talk to me when I call him so he's not real. More likely he's like your ex-Girlfirend and just doesn't answer because you are petty and annoying. (more likely not necessicarily)

The next are a trendy bunch that it's fun to taunt with classical logic as they spew the hatespeak they've heard from others, it's nice to keep em on the line until you get the whole argument of their idol so you can try to figure out who it is that really said it and if you feel like it argue them which may be more productive than taunting a drone.

Others are just smart people who are working through their world view and exploring philosophy and will eventually given time realize that there may in fact be a God and that only the dead will ever know either way for certain. That'd be why it's called Belief hehe.

Your right, we can never judge individuals on why they think the way they do, where they have come from. Yesterday I drove past a cemetary and as I looked over the vast graves the thought came to me. "I'm going to lay down there too." No time to waist. Thanks for your comment.

...Why can't we just agree there is no proof.

Also that Seeking other answers is a better way to deal with this then argue there is no proof.

Both sides know this.

It's a question, why not try to answer it?

Kind of like searching for answers is the enjoyable part? It is enjoyable and the searching gives us growth and when I come accross truth my joy increases and I want to tell the world. Thats why I am on thoughts. I agree we shouldn't contend with each other because Jesus wants use to love each other, have understanding and respect each others beliefs and be kind but he doesn't want us to deny the truth. There is a lot of things I don't know so I have to walk by faith. I am rewarded with some truth along the way and my faith is strengthened. Truth is a worthy pursuit. All truth is inter connected and part of one grate whole. All truth testifies there is a God who created all things by his Son and who sent his Son to atone for our sins die and be resurected so we will be reserected and live again as he does. This truth is our only hope, this will give us more meaning in our ordinary lives. The pursuit of truth is esential in the understanding of our highest purposes for existance on this wonderful creation called Earth.

I once heard a quote from a very wise man on the theory of Evolution, he said "if we all descended from apes then why are there still so many apes?"

Yes, good point. Why were they so unlucky.No disrespect to Munkyman

None Taken, We are classified as 1 of the 4 great apes (that's the origin of MunkyMan) we sit evolutionarily beside them but we seem to have replaced or consolidated our progenator species... depending of which theory on evolution of the human homo-sapiens you subscribe to none have as yet been proven... something about that whole missing link sasquatch or something.Just picking at you but there are no white apes left and the rest have nearly been wiped out in their native regions... so without proof it's just as likely that we wiped out out ape progenators in europe because they had nowhere to hide and that the others have survived their human ofspring due to the dense jungle to which they are partial remember we're only talking about 4 species of the great ape and humans are one ther are 4 races of man the asian, the negro found from africa to the islands of the pacific and the continent of australia, the semites of the mid east, and caucasians from the plains of eurasia to the british isles, genetically speaking it seems that the Americas are inhabited indigenously by mixtures of african asian and european... explorers? I'm not proposing special diferentiation between the races but that's one of the theories of evolution and it's one of the two generally accepted. The other fits to me with evolution and Genesis both being right. "God" "made" "Adam" "from" "Mud/Clay". In evolutionary terms the progenator species of evolutionary advances of new species become part of the primordeal ooze or muck. I only propose there's a lot we don't know and plenty of it we never will but there are a couple things we can only answer by dying and only an idiot's in a hurry to do that to prove a point.

That man clearly was no wise man on the theory of Evolution if he wondered the question, "If we all descended from apes then why are there still so many apes?"

The evidence points to a COMMON ancestor, not the same as apes today. An ancestor with common genetic traits... like a family tree that branches off in one direction, while the other(s) goes in different directions. Yet, thousands/millions of years later, because of different environmental variables and genetic habits, they appear and act drastically different.

I mean, the greatest evidence to evolution is that it occurs RIGHT NOW. Look at all the diseases that have mutated in front of our eyes. Swine Flu, Bird Flu, animals in pollution for the last 100 years have developed safeguards and defenses for themselves based on a wide range of physical variables.

Just to return to the argument of your post, if I may. The problem with the odds argument is the infinity of time and space. Given enough time, even the most highly improbable becomes highly likely. Say you were to conduct an experiment and the statistical chance of a positive outcome was one in a million, well if you were smart and you liked to gamble (some smart people do) and the experiment was a one off event, you would bet on a negative. Indeed, with these odds and our limited life span you would bet on a negative full stop. However, look at the same odds for the perspective of infinity: a positive is a sure thing, it is bound to happen sooner or later.

ever see the movie 21? it's based ona true story. I grew up with one of the girls upon whom one of the characters was was based. She was freakin brilliant even as a preteen. You point out that there are ods that there may have at somepoint or at the verybeginning sprung into existance that force or personage refered to commonly as God. That's what I was pointing out to allan when this whole thing got started. I don't know because there are still odds suggesting it's possibility. there are no odds on if I throw an anvil into the air will it fall, until I can throw it over 20,000 miles or so, until then it's just a question of where.
Nuclear fall out has a half life and decay cycle we can hope for enviromental actions to dissapate it or move it out of our region but we know exactly how long that trash is gonna be radioactive and when it'll be lead. There are few if any odds open on that.
I'm aware you don't dispute this stuff but that's the argument I've been asserting and told rude things about myself for my statement.

How's life treating you buddy?

In that case in our short time lets prove the case in the positive for creation.To do otherwise is like trying to prove a well designed building had no designer. You would never do it in all eternity.

My assertion is we can't prove it, either way so why try. I think the attempt to prove or disprove God is a waste of effort. I think that when we've learned alot more we may then have the option of a real effort at that. but now we're like monkeys flinging poo while debating what the moon is made of, it's just not a practicle use of our limited means. We should just accept that differing humans believe differing things and when one comes to use we should honestly relate our beliefs to them and support them with personal stories not mocking ridicule or threats of eternal damnation. I don't suggest that anyone stop acting on behalf of what they believe, unless their belief tells em to rob, murder or other wise deprive me and their neighbors of our rights. Really until we can build a functional human, until we can make a computer that actually thinks as opposed to deciding, until we quit dying of disease, until we can leave the planet behind I think we have much more useful things to do than try proving the unprovable, feeding the hungry and clothing the cold comes to mind.

Lets be logical. Is there a chance that the Sydney Opra House could come together all by itself? Don't be fooled into thinking because you can't see the creator or designer and things appear to come together by them selves that they do. True principals and laws apply to all things. To organize elements out of caos requires inteligence, planing and effort. Even our lives prove this principal. Can anyone become good at what they do in professions or trades without effort, study and application. You can't become a doctor by bumming around the place. Nothing of worth ever just happens. Every father has told his son that.
The organizing of this beautiful well designed Earth is no exception. God our Heavenly Father organized it for us. Who can say its not good or its not well designed as they engage with its splendid and amazing beauty. All truths of the Earth testify that there is a God and that is not all. The greatest evidence that there is a God and that his Son Jesus Christ is the Saviour and Redeemer is The Book Of Mormon. The evidence is in the book itself. The evidence is in the fact that an angel from God showed Joseph Smith where the gold plates were burried. The evidence is in the fact that Joseph Smith with little formal education translated it in six Months in the only way it could have been, by the gift and power of God. The evidence is in the many authors of the book proving that Joseph Smith could not have been the author of it but rather the translator. The evidence is in its pages as Another Testament along with the Bible that Jesus Christ was resurected and visited other people in different parts of the Earth. The evidence is in the power of the Spirit of the book that will testify to your inner spirit if you will try the experiment found within the book. The evidences are all through the book giving even greater insites into better living by the teachings of Jesus Christ and recieving his ordinances in preparation for eternal life. I invite anyone interested in discovering these important truths and trying the experiment to get a copy and read it with real intent.

www.mormon.org

"Given enough time, even the most highly improbable becomes highly likely." Is very accurate statement if one understands statistical probability.

Lets be logical. Is there a chance that the Sydney Opra House could come together all by itself? Don't be fooled into thinking because you can't see the creator or designer and things appear to come together by them selves that they do. True principals and laws apply to all things. To organize elements out of caos requires inteligence, planing and effort. Even our lives prove this principal. Can anyone become good at what they do in professions or trades without effort, study and application. You can't become a doctor by bumming around the place. Nothing of worth ever just happens. Every father has told his son that.
The organizing of this beautiful well designed Earth is no exception. God our Heavenly Father organized it for us. Who can say its not good or its not well designed as they engage with its splendid and amazing beauty. All truths of the Earth testify that there is a God and that is not all. The greatest evidence that there is a God and that his Son Jesus Christ is the Saviour and Redeemer is The Book Of Mormon. The evidence is in the book itself. The evidence is in the fact that an angel from God showed Joseph Smith where the gold plates were burried. The evidence is in the fact that Joseph Smith with little formal education translated it in six Months in the only way it could have been, by the gift and power of God. The evidence is in the many authors of the book proving that Joseph Smith could not have been the author of it but rather the translator. The evidence is in its pages as Another Testament along with the Bible that Jesus Christ was resurected and visited other people in different parts of the Earth. The evidence is in the power of the Spirit of the book that will testify to your inner spirit if you will try the experiment found within the book. The evidences are all through the book giving even greater insites into better living by the teachings of Jesus Christ and recieving his ordinances in preparation for eternal life. I invite anyone interested in discovering these important truths and trying the experiment to get a copy and read it with real intent.

www.mormon.org

The wisest and best advice I ever got when going through a questioning period was 'Just believe.' It's hard to accept something so simple but that's just what I do and the proof is all around me, all of the time. E x

I guess having that simple acceptance has its own reward. I see it in your photo above