At least I think so. Nasa found a supernove that happened 140 years ago and can now watch a star go trhough the motions of a total supernove. Our star won't even supernove when it goes, this thing was much bigger. I'm no astronomer but I found the pictures of it on Nasa.gov to be amazing.
Second a letter Einstein went up for sale today in which he settles the arguments Christians have been using for decades that he proves in his theories and therefore believed in a diety. He plainly states the notion of a 'god' creating us is childish superstition and although he is proud of being Jewish (as am I), the notion of a chosen race is fantasy as well. To be honest I always felt that the notion that my heritage viewed themselves as a species chosen to be special above other races an extremely racist and superstitious view and I am glad to know a man much smarter than any professor or MIT grad posting here thought so too. I'll defer to his opinion of god over the opinions of a indoctrinated adult or a high school dropout pastor anyday.
Posted by freethinker on 2008-05-15 00:22:49 | Rating: n/a | Views: 246
Oh Jason, How sad that you can look into the heavens and still not get it. I'm not sure if this will work as a link, but this was my response when I saw the last Lunar Eclipse. I guess it's all in the way you look at it.
A lunar eclipse is isn't even a .0000000000001% aas important as what was dicovered in Chandra. A Supernova and the moon blocking our view of the sun aren't even worth comparing. So am not sure what you are referencing. I went to the blog and I see picking and choosing of scriptural stories and verses and I am not sure if you are referencing my feelings about the supernova, the FACT that the universe is billions of years old and the young earth theory is PORVEN to be wrong unless magic is involved. Or are you referencing th Eistein letter in which he reputes the idea of a god even existing and says it is a 'childish notion'.
Also, a book written ENTIRELY by man but with gods OWN words, in your belief, cannot have it's verses hand picked. If one inaccuracy is found, and there are hundreds, then by default, your god is wrong or the book is just what it seems to be, a poorly written piece of fiction.
I on the other hand, CAN pick and choose verses. If I find one that condradicts which verse and story you cherry pick then your story is null and void.
You want proof? Here is a list of 400 contradictions in the bible http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/by_name.html
It's your book man, you have to stick to it, defend it and prove the laws, commandmets and arguments match and are moral. Not me.
It would be a little difficult to post the entire Bible on line. :) I have read and studied through the Bible and these are passages that stood out to me among many others.
I am not in the habit of arguing over Scripture, but rather sharing it with others, who might find it applicable to their lives.
It just seems amazing that you can look into the Heavens and not see the hand of the Creator. You seem to find it convenient to put your trust in a man if he gives you reason to reject God. My faith is not based on whether Einstein believed or not.
It is rather a coincidence (?) that last night just prior to reading your post, my husband gave me a review he had written on an article in "American Scientist", dealing with Supernovas and mentioning Einstein's work built upon by other theories - questioning the way in which this applies to current Scientific thought regarding The Big Bang.
I am not a Scientist, so I had to read it a couple of times to understand the technical aspects. "American Scientist" is the publication sent to members of Sigma Xi, the Scientific Research Society.
Ron is a research scientist considered to be expert enough to review papers submitted for publication in a Scientific journal. He is a believer and among those in the scientific community you so easily dismiss as insignificant.
The article he reviewed was not written from a Christian viewpoint, but seriously questioned a popular theory in an intelligent reasoning manner.
I am unable to review his review, since this is not my area of expertise. I rather suspect that it is not yours either.
I am not sure why I have been drawn to continue discussion with you for this long, since you are so obviously hostile toward everything Christian.
Perhaps it is for others who will choose to place their faith in God's Word.
You said
"It would be a little difficult to post the entire Bible on line. :) I have read and studied through the Bible and these are passages that stood out to me among many others."
But it is and in many places. :)
And "It just seems amazing that you can look into the Heavens and not see the hand of the Creator. You seem to find it convenient to put your trust in a man if he gives you reason to reject God. My faith is not based on whether Einstein believed or not."
May knowing that there is no creator is not influenced by Einstein in the least. If researched, you would find that Einstein's arguments have been used by Christians for fifty or so years to 'show' "proof" that there had to be some creator and since he never had knowingly "OPENLY" said god didn't exist they used this in their favor as saying he believed in a creator. The whole 'greatest minds agree in god' argument Christians are fond of using. Well, each time it gets disproven they move to another talking point and pretend they never agreed with a non-believer. This must be another time. :)
I am also not hostile, at least not in the sense of wanting to hurt Christians, I just think the ideology and techniques harm society and don't help it and have been doing so for thousands of years.
If you or your scientists husband had bothered researching what you would devote your life to instead of ignoring anything that contradicts it, you would not have faith in your religion either. God? Maybe. But Christianity? Nope.
You would have found that the scriptures have been changed thousands of times. None are copies of the original and the authors aren't even who you think they are. Mark, who wrote the first three gospels never even met a man of Christ and during the time that Christ supposedly ruled there were dozens of figures, claimed to be born of virgins and/or prophecy who said they were born to free the Jews from Roman rule. Now many of these figures can be proven to have lived but the one who supposedly is the ONE, TRUE answer, doesn't even have the evidence of having lived at all! Mark wrote the gospels around 70 AD probably with Paul of Tarsis and NEITHER had ever even met Jesus! There is way too many contradictions in your own bible for me to break out historical facts, forgeries, differences in the dogma between faiths, lineages and trauma caused by religion in a single blog. So I am just focusing on the contradictions in the actual, bible. At least a few of the thousand or so versions around today. I try to stick with King James Version, New Living Translation, New American Standard Bible, Revised Standard Version, etc. The main ones you know. The ones that differ to greatly, I don't use in these blogs. Not enough time and the excuse given is to easy by English Christians, just like the Catholics and Protestants give, 'those people aren't REAL Christians'. Funny enough, this is also the same reason the Knights of the Klu Klux Klan gives for the other sects of Christianity (they are a Christian group as well you know and swear on the book of Romans when they become members and view it as a way to live their life as commanded by Jesus).
Well,that pretty much covers it. You seem to be very interested in protecting society from us - we ignorant types who never do our homework and resemble the KKK.
But society is made up of individuals. What are you doing to encourage, build up or better the individuals in your life?
It is easy to look at all the wrongs in the world and blame it on something or someone. It is not so easy to look inside at your own heart.
You are so knowledgeable about the Bible, and yet you don't care about it? You are not hostile, and yet you do not hesitate to insult other people?
I think it's probably time for me to sign off. There comes a time when no further intelligent discussion is possible. I am very sorry, and I wish you well.
I never said you resmeble the KKK. I said both groups use the same literature. Look Mr. Mathis, you can't continually ignore the fact that multiple groups use the bible as the standard for their religion and each one interprets or changes it to suit them.
I do care about religion. I think everyone on Earth needs to think about mankinds need to believe in a deity or creator to function. Is it because we were raised that way or is it something inherint in our genes that we cannot function with the fear of final death or the unanswered questions of 'how' we got here, so we great epic heroes and magical stories to comfort us. You may say society is made of individuals but it doesn't function that way. One man can make a difference but he has to be able to start a massive wave that ripples through society and even then, he can't make the difference alone, he must have followers or 'believers' in his ideology. You can see how this makes religion an easy target for men like these to convey their opinions to vunerable minds.
Your line of think reminds me of something that happened the other day. You know those people, almost always black, who go to some church called New Life Hope or something? And they get into suits and sometimes ask for money at corners of intersections with their church donation buckets? Maybe it is a Texas thing but I am sure the region you live in has some other group.
I digress though. I was at an intersection the other day and it was nice so my windows were down and when the guy got to me he said "Would you like to donate to Gods work"? "Sorry man, I don't believe in God." Was my answer and I went on to say I donated to Prostate Cancer when I had the funds to do so. His reply?????? "God's work can help all that and I won't let what you said offend me."
My lack of belief offend him??? I drive by churches daily and am told to respect others beliefs each day in a world run and filled with people wanting and willing to kill, main and torture others because they believe differently and I keep being told to respect that?
Sorry Charlotte if you read insults into where there are none. I haven't insulted you or your husband. Ironic though, how me not believing and my thinking that religion is much more harmful the benificial is viewed as an insult and not repected by the same people who say I must respect their beliefs.
I really don't know what to say to you. I think I have spoken to you in a respectful manner. There is nothing I can say that would be clever enough, smart enough or convincing enough to cause you to believe. The only person who can do that is the Lord, through the influence of His Holy Spirit in your heart and your willingness to respond.
Jesus never tried to argue a man into the kingdom - because he knew their hearts. He was crucified in the name of religion. It is not more religion that the world needs. It is not more religion or anti-religion that you need.
I don't know if your heart is totally hardened, but I have believed up to this point that the Lord was leading me to continue to speak of my faith. I am not responsible for how people receive what I share with them. I am only responsible to do what I believe God is leading me to do.
For some reason he has planted a heart of love in regard to you and your family. I am trying to be sensitive to His leading in regard to continuing, since I do truly hurt when I hear your harsh words about the Lord.
One of the most encouraging things you wrote was refering to our faith as that which my husband and I devote our lives to. If that one thing comes across, I am grateful. When Ron and I were married, 46 years ago, he was a new Christian and we started out our life together on our knees. God has been the center of our married life and is still the center of our family. If this is all based on fiction - I don't want the story to end.
Why is it so important to convert everyone into believing like you? Why is it so offensive when people don't? Why does someone so powerful and all-knowing need to be defended, often to the death by believers? You say you are hurt by my non belief? Really? If my dad won the worlds strongest man competition and then some starnger walked up to me and said 'my dad is stronger', would it hurt my feelings? How weak is a god that tells his sheep people will disbelieve but weeps and begs for defending him when someone just fulfills what he said would happen?
If anything people like me should be offended when they are accused of being hard hearted or in need of saving.
If someone walked up and called your Dad a liar, it might hurt your feelings. (Or maybe not...)
Your words: "...tells his sheep people will disbelieve but weeps and begs for defending him when someone just fulfills what he said would happen?"
You are right. He did say it would happen. I guess you are a fulfillment of prophesy.:)
You said: "It's your book man, you have to stick to it, defend it and prove the laws..."
Now you say, "Why does someone so powerful and all-knowing need to be defended"
I do believe with all of my heart that Jesus is the "Way the Truth and the Life" just as He claimed. I also believe He is patient "not willing that any should perish." I take God at His Word and share it with others, mostly for the purpose of encouraging believers, but the very nature of blogging takes me into the world of unbelievers, so here I am.
Exactly. I am just fullfilling your bible's prophecy :) Though you could say I am losing. I mean don't get me wrong, in civilzed countries non-belief is increasing as education does but it is far outweighed by the rise of fanaticism in third world countries.
And no. If my dad ruled the entire earth and had power and authority over every single person on it unopposed, I would not get offened if someone pissed on his picture. After all, he knows the second they do it and he has horrible plans of torture and pain for whoever thinks not to mention says anything he considers negative. Why would I cry about it?
Freethinker, I am going to pray to you from now on:) I think its more likly that you are real. I respect your writting, I thought I was the only one who thought it was all abit silly. I'm no where near as intelligent as Einstein but I can understand why he thought in this way.
Suggested reading: Keith Nickle / The Synoptic Gospels:Conflict and Consensus, Robert Stein/ Synoptic Gospels: Origins and Interpretations.
Actually I was very surprised that that Wikapedia has an excellent article at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q_document
This covers not only the (two source hypothesis) Q document theory…as well as discussing both Markan and Matthean priority. Also there synopsis of the Gospel of Matthew was excellent.
As you actually study…and not just read items on the net, you find that the scholarly consensus still remains, even after over 1900 years, as to the authorship of the gospels being Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Even though Augustine of Hippo and other church fathers believed that Matthew was written first, most scholars believe that the Gospel of Mark (which is the shortest of the synoptic gospels), was written first and then Matthew and Luke used Mark as a source and then added additional material…both from a possibly additional document (Q document theory) as well as eye witnesses accounts.
There is no consensus in true biblical scholarship that Mark wrote the first three gospels. For the one or two self-styled works of biblical criticism that would support that idea on the net, there are thousands of scholars over a 1500 year period who show that idea to be faulty. Each of the gospels are focused on different perspectives. Matthew was obviously written originally in the Hebrew and then translated into koine Greek. All of the rest of the gospels and the New Testament (except the last words of Christ on the cross) were written in koine (common) Greek. Matthew, the Jew, focuses on Jesus as he who came in fulfillment of the prophecies of the Old Testament. Jesus the Messiah. Mark, the Roman, saw Jesus through the eyes of Roman law and culture. Luke, the Greek, saw Jesus as the “perfect man”. Paul never had anything to do with writing of the gospels. The epistles (letters) of Paul are quite unique in there content, style of writing, symbology, consistency, language, and theology…not found in the gospel style and writings.
"If my dad ruled the entire earth and had power and authority over every single person on it unopposed, I would not get offened if someone pissed on his picture. After all, he knows the second they do it and he has horrible plans of torture and pain for whoever thinks not to mention says anything he considers negative. Why would I cry about it?" --- this makes perfect sense to me.
however, I do think that alot of Christians do have the core intention of simply sharing their beliefs & the joy/satisfaction they've found in them.
Don't listenHyde, pleae pray for me. While you are at it, pray for the hundreds of thousands od fead kids in China right now. In fact, skip me and pray for them.....or you could take your prays and shove them up your ass, your choice. They work the same either way.
SharetheWord - I do have a concept of what it is to have a relationship with JC. It is like having a relationship with Apollo, only more ludicrous. It involves delusions, guilt, atonement, a free feeling from be alienated and an acceptance of what others think. It is bullshit. There is your understanding..
BUT if JC wants to come down, since he is all powerful and explain it himself to he is more than welcome though.
To be honest Dino, I am still not sure. There are areas where I am much more suited than I thought I would be and areas I realize I was lying to myself to either inflate my ego or comoete with others.
The answers I currently have found to be true, as of now, is although I have a tendancy to speak and not listen, to put out and not absorb; isnthe opposite way to do things. I have learned to be more tolerant. I have learned, from looking into myself that the things I hate are often the things I am afraid of becoming or see lurking in the back of my mind. Cowardice for instance, I unknowlingly was so scared of being perceived as a coward that I either got confrontational for no reason or fooled myself into thinking I was to good for the guy or to ask the girl out. Looking into myself I see it was just fear, most things are fear but this example was fear of not what people thought but of I what I thought of myself. I know have courage when needed and smarts when needed, depends on the situation, but there is still the fear lurking. The big thing I learnded was admitting these things. Acknowlegding these things and putting out in the open has been cathartic for me and although I'll never say I was smarter than the day before, I know more than I did yesterday. And hopefully I'll know more tomorrow.
I found some of my answers of why I am here. To make other people feel at peace and to serve others (after all, it feels great). I found out, to help other people, first, I have to begin help myself. My goals are centered in others people benefit and in God's love (now you can skip my testimony, if you want) I know God exists and love us because I have felt his love, no one told me, no one got me to believing but I did it myself and I felt happier since the day I looked for answers and found them.
I want...(this may sound a bit cocky) to be perfect (What do you think about it?) and I am putting so much effort into doing it, someway or another if I made it, then it would be easier for other people to find perfection; therefore wars wouldn't need to exist, nor hunger, nor abuse, nor other bad stuff. I am sure you and me agree of this, those bad stuff occur because of the illness of not understanding how else or simply putting it, ignorance.
I am young but I don't think great persons (those who help) are based on experience but in attitude... my attitude can be written simply, "non perfect whose goal is perfection" but there is a lot more into it, I know if I made it (which I can hardly imagine) not so many people would understand the decisions I'd make because of ignorance and their hard hearts (what to do with that people?).
Perfection may be hard to accomplish in this life but each day, I'm learning and making experiences count. If I’m going to be something I am going to be that for sure.
I see what you are saying. But I think striving for pefection is futile and can never be acheived. If one becomes egotistical, loses his way and begins to think his way is the only way, he will delude himself to be perfect.
Trying to better is a better a of putting it I think. Starting off each day with the goal to learn more and be a better perosn and make better decisions is realistic. You won't succeed everyday of course, but don't feel guilty because you fail, learn from it.
I have said this before, it has been ignored but maybe you'll get it, I think you will. I think many religious people are great. Nice people all around. They have their own beliefs, keep them to themselves, have their faith and do their best. It is the opposite that I loathe and I find you in the former category though I don't really know you.
But like you said, each day you learn something. Just remember that sometimes the things you learn might make you questions beliefs you thought were solid and beyond reproach. "Ideas and beliefs viewed as fact are the best ones to question".
We will disagree of course on religion, no doubt. I am happier than I have ever been and I used to be a devout Christian, so who knows.
And trust me, you don't sound cocky, respectiable to admit you might (viewing your own shortcomings is a sign of awareness and intellegence I believe) but I think I beat you handly in the cocky category. I'll even go so far as to say I am an asshole and a prick. BUT, there aremany facets to people and to be judged on one of them is an assumtion based on lack of knowledge. I am also loving, kind and caring.
So full of contradictions we humans are!
Anwyays Dino, I appreciate your honesty and I respect your right to believe in what you want. I have always said, in fact the point of the blog, is I don't and never hate the believer (unless he is a genocidal killer ala Bin Laden or Hitler) but I hate the belief. Nothing to do with you so you should not take offense and I don't understand why people do take offense when I say I disagree but they do. I don't take offense when people tell me they believe but it doesn't work out in reverse. Society and it's double standars.... Anyways, have a great night.
Like someone once said in a book I read (shame on me for not remembering the author but the idea), better to point to the moon and hit an eagle than to point an eagle and hit a rock. I know perfection is a hard task that may bring mostly depression of all kind of consequences but there is always a way to accomplish any kind of goal (this specially would be hard enough). I feel mentally ready and if the basics are not forgotten I feel I may make it (not a lot of faith in there ^^ but it’d increase). By the way, my idea of perfection comes from Christ, what about you?
I think one of the reasons people like to share their beliefs is because they are sure it is the right way to be and others to be (after all, they feel good with the life they are living). You actually do almost the same by telling your feelings, beliefs about the “wrong beliefs” of other people. Anyways, I think if we help others and know that is the right thing to do, it will be fine after death.
I agree with the other stuff you said though; yes, even the cocky part (I don’t like to be cocky, sometimes I have to mention it since other people may get the wrong idea if I don’t. It is an awareness of mine indeed). A basic idea that may describe me is that I really dislike to do something wrong that I know I did wrong, it also may mean that I am a bad loser deep inside. I, again, am trying; first to help myself to help others.
Life is wonderful in times like these… when I learn and grow (‘cause I am and that’s my goal). Now, what disturbs me is other people without realizing why they are here (since it kinds of bring all kind of troubles that converts them no more than animals). I wonder what if they realized their purpose is to kill as Hitler or Bin Laden may have realized – good and evil—is the choice. What do you think about it? (Note: it took me 2 hours and a half to write this. Double meaning everywhere indeed) Well, have fun ^^.
SharetheWord - I do have a concept of what it is to have a relationship with JC. It is like having a relationship with Apollo, only more ludicrous. It involves delusions, guilt, atonement, a free feeling from be alienated and an acceptance of what others think....
Freethinker, You said you were once a devout Christian. Explain, not from the cynical view you now hold, but an honest view of how you thought then.
Remember that you used the word devout, so please stop and think, maybe for about 24 hours, before you answer.
And Dino, busy week bro. Sorry bout that. My main point of contention on your post was that we all share our beliefs because it is the 'right way to be'. I don't do that, ever. I have no idea if my ways are the 'right way' or if I am right about my beliefs. I am only saying what is wrong, not right. And the only reason I am even saying that is because for two thousand years and many centuries before that, the myths and many gods have not only had their time and more to fuck up the world, they have also filled their bellies with all of their doubters. I and many, many other people are tired of these ridiculous people with their ridiculous tales being in charge of telling millions of other people how to live their lives, who to pray to, who to believe in and who not to believe in, how to dress and how not to dress, who to love and who not to love, who to kill and who not to kill and who to hate.
No, I don't think people who believe in NO religion go about sharing their beliefs because they are positive they are right, if some even do feel the need to have the tenacity to make their opinions known then they do so because they are as tired of the irrational and harmful teachings these beliefs have over the minds of the common man and to prevent the harm that these common people would do in 'their' gods name.
I understand your point of view and also understand the point of view of many religious people who share their beliefs. There is so many types of "belief systems" ... which is the best one? That remembers me of a particular story.
Anyways, there are some question I made in my last comment that I don't think you answer specifically. I assume, it is hard for you to respond since people who think like you, are just trying to avoid the mistakes of the past by analyzing stuff in the present... it looks like you don't have rules at all.
I still have to learn and master a lot about the beliefs of my church (LDS) but I what I know is that those teachings are right.
You and me have a different type of "belief system" since I believe in God's wisdom and you don't. In your theory/beliefs, what do you think we should do to avoid unnecessary problems?
By the way, I think your beliefs are not complete at all; it'd take awhile for people like you to figure out how to complete it and maybe many changes through time which at the end may lead to nothing.
do me a favor and try to not use bad words when you write (my reason is, it makes me remember what they are commonly use for). Thanks, Later.
