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I think there has been a minunderstanding on my views of tolerance towards religion of the level of respect I have for it. I want to clarify this. I do think people have the right to believe whatever superstition they want, whether it be life after death all the way to thinking they feel god guiding their lives. I think it is nonsense and rediculous but if they believe it fine.
What I do not respect is when people force their religion and beliefs on me. This can happen in numerous ways. Ways such as them telling me they feel sorry for me because I will suffer for eternity for not groveling to the god they believe in, signs posted everywhere telling me I need to be saved for sins I haven't even done, indoctrinating their children with the same beliefs and not letting them make up their own minds and other things many religions promote such as women being subject and lesser than men, slavery and desire for holy wars. Predudice in numerous ways is their practice
How can I have respect for a person who believe in myths and tales, all proven false and impossible to record or reproduce, but they say I am a fool for not believing in miracles. If a person tells me I am wrong, which insinuates an eternity in hell (just let the word eternity sink it) because I find their beliefs laughable, Am I wrong to call them on it? I often find Christian have no problem judging others and condeming them to hell unless they believe what the Christian /Muslim etc. believes. They even go so far as to change the laws to reflect their beliefs. I would be forced to change my life and follow laws implemented by people who are fools or schizo's.
When I was growing up I could not watch R or even PG-13 movies. I could not watch the smurfs because a local pastor told my father that the smurfs were blue because they symbolized corpses and that they were all gay because there was only one female on the show. But they had no problem showing me Operation Rescue videos where babies get sucked out piece by piece. Does that not seem odd to anyone? No smurfs but blood and gore with fetuses?
So no, my tolerance of fanatics and deeply religious people, who will never change, does not exist. They feel as though they are in the right calling me ignorant for not believing in a god in the sky, reading our thought, judging us and sending 99% to torture and worse after death but somehow get offended when I say they are full of shit? Well I am tired of being PC, I am tired of showing respect for people who don't respect my views. They offend me, I offend back. And it is so much easier to offend a Christian than an atheist. We have nothing to prove. We have no answers, we are just looking for them. I wish I could say 'it's gods will' everytime something horrible happens (china's earthquake for example) but I can't, because it is bullshit. And I call them on it.
My mother is religious, she just interprets the bible different from my father. My Uncle commited suicide many years ago and my mother believes he is heaven. Good for her, it makes her feel comfort. I don't argue it and I feel if people believe certain things to make them feel good, good for them. It is the Christians that tell her she is wrong and suicide is a hellbound sin. Fuck those people. Treading on someones hope is a horrible thing to do and pushing your agenda on someone who is vunerable is even worse.
I not only do not respect those people and the religion in general, I despise it. So, if anyone comes at me with guns blazing on how 'spritually dead' I am, except retorts most likely vulgar. Since I don't believe society gets to decide what words are appropriate, since they change constantly, I'll use whatever I feel liek especially if it grabs attention or offend the same people who tell me I am damned to hell.
Really, is calling some a piece of shit worse than saying someone will be torture for trillions of years because of some mistake they made in the second of time we are on this world? These same people bash religions they don't believe in but heaven forbid you question their god. Hypocrites the lot of them. Again, I differ to my mother, she used to be the same way but has not opened her mind, she believes in god but realizes she doesn't have all the answers and just has faith. I respect that. Other's in my family have either never read the bible and just believe it because society and their upbringing has locked them in this religious trap or they think they know all things biblical, obviously ignoring the contradictions, genocide, physically impossible acts (I am sorry but you can't live to be over 900 years, FACT) and think they are sane? We can man a space station, land on mars, send probes to Neptune but still these people think sacrifices of animals appeases thier god? What kind of god is that? Surely not one to be followed if he did even exist. What makes it laughable is the same people who say they believe in miracles, souls, etc. are still searching for evidence. Why need evidence if you have faith? Looks like some don't believe as much as they say they do.
I decided long before I quit believing in god that the god I was raised in wasn't worth worshing anyways. That is morals. That is freethinking. |
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Posted by freethinker on 2008-05-27 00:39:08 | Rating: | Views: 230
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You know Free - as long as you say it there are still going to be people that do not understand it and people that just cannot accept it. Screw everyone who does not have the ability to realize their way is not the only way and trying to "convert" or " save " someone will not win them a place in their heaven. Lets try to figure out some of the real issues plaguing our society and then maybe when we have that all figured out we can get back to pointing the figure on who is out of the "PROPER " religious circle.... ( that last part is real freakin heavy sarcasm..... feel me laying it on thick my friends .... )
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Posted by farsidde
on 2008-05-30 03:02:56
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First, I love you far. I think we are on the same page.
Regarding Journeyman and other's like him, I really do hate discussing history or science with religious people. The two cannot be discussed in the same coversation. Religious people, especially fanatics, ignore and pretend any evidence that contradicts their beliefs does not exist, they discredit (or outright ignore) anyone who says anything that shines a light on the ignorance of what they believe.
Before I highlight some of Christianity's 'scientific evidence', I'll use Mormons as an example. Since Christians often see how ludicrous other religions are they will agree with me that the Mormons current search for bronze and gold chariots, weapons of steel and evidence of a blond white race here many centuries before the indians. It is obviously laughable but they pretend all evidence to the contrary does not exist. It is ironic that the same views Christians view Mormons and Muslims is identical as far as idiocy that their beliefs are.
A person cannot even pretend to argue their beliefs with facts if they also believe the impossible. Why do people with 'faith' try to use science to back their beliefs but claim it is all bullshit when it contradicts them. It is a FACT that none of the people who wrote the New Testament ever even knew a man named Jesus. It is a fact that Mark was the first book written. It is almost certain that none of the 'authors' of the gospels were written by the person they are attributed to. It is a FACT that the bible has been changed hundreds, if not thousands of times since it's inception. Evidence that the events of the gospels are false are so numerous that it is even pointless to list them all. They would just be ignored anyways by someone who has invested their life into a belief.
How can a person, seriously, who believes things like men lived to be 900 years old just a few centuries ago, that not only did two of every animal on EARTH fit on a boat (built by another man who lived almost a millenium by they way) but that polar bears and buffalos somehow walked or swam somewhere in the middle east to ride it out for fourty days on a rickety boat (and while your at it tell me how a planet covered in water evaporates in fourty days enough to make continents)? How can someone who believes in magic like rivers of blood, sorcery like turning staffs to snakes and reanimated corpses (three days old mind you with no evidence of rigomortis) even try to talk on par with someone who obviously knows that all to be impossible?
They use the faith and miracle card when it comes to the obvious bullshit like a whale eating a man and him chilling for four days but then they try and use segments of history to supposedly back up their claims when almost all of it shows it to be false.
I could go on for days, not with information from the 'net' as Journeyman likes to say as if this somehow discredits it but then refers to blogs or sites that agree with him, but from scholars, archelogists, professors and textbooks. I could go on about how almost all "historical" and "Holy" Christian sites were actually built over temples dedicated to other gods like Apollo or Aphrodite (Calgary comes to mind). ABout the blodshed and forced covertions to Christianity is early times, starting with Paul of Tarsus insanity. How Christians ripped to pieces, burned alive, torured and even sliced to death with glass shards non-believers and philosophers. To pick and choose some words of peace in a book part fairy tale, part rated X piece of literature is too low for me to even respond too.
Bottome line, no amount of 'science' talk, 'historical' proof or 'evidence' of any kind can be taken seriously when they obviously ignore FACTS and universal laws that show their religions ignorance and superstitions.
You tell me how an animal can talk, how a shitload of demons float into pigs, how chariots, flaming no less, ride the sky to heaven or that people can stand in fire for three days......and then we'll talk facts and science. Until then, stick with Grimms fairy tales and leave the thinking to others.
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Posted by freethinker
on 2008-06-01 22:55:28
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Regarding Nonthinker…and others like him, is that all of us who have an education and have paid the price to have an opinion with many years of study, is discussing history, science or religion with people like him. Ignorance, arrogant, bigot…and proving his not just a lack of education but an inability to comprehend most of the concepts expressed on this sight. It’s like trying to explain quantum to a four year old. No one on this site has marginalized, ignored and tried to discredit anyone more than you have When concepts and observations that may not be in agreement with your opinion, first you ignore them...as you don’t have enough knowledge of any of the scientific disciplines to offer any input..and next you begin your rant on how many scientists on your website say you are right….or you just begin to call people names. It is too bad you don’t have enough background to be able to actually discuss the topics. So, you call everyone else an idiot, fanatic, intolerant, ignorant ass. Wow!! You had to be standing in a mirror with that description.
There are several things you can’t find in Mormonism (thank-you Journeyman), a linguist or an archeologist. The cities in the book of Morman never existed in the areas described in Central America. That has long since been established. Every major city of the Bible has been found. Babel, Jericho, Ur of the Chaldees. And if the Hebrew language had been once spoken in Central America, prior to the Mayan and Aztec cultures…then roots of the Hebrew vernacular would be in evidence within the modern languages. But they are not. To compare this to the Biblical record is typical of ignorant religious bigots.
Here is a FACT. You have no background, no education and are almost illiterate. You probably need to stay on this site as there are other 80 IQ individuals like yourself that will believe your drivel. You have NO ability to debate or offer a meaningful opinion on the sciences as I imagine it has been a while since your 6th grade general science course. If we are going to leave the opinions to scientists…then that leaves your opinion out. When you get your PhD, come on back and we can use a larger vocabulary.
And now we get your rebuttal. More ignorance. More bigotry. More intolerance. And more opinions form a child who keeps saying…”I know nothing”. You right you know nothing.
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Posted by Unamuno
on 2008-06-02 03:05:05
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Suggested reading: Keith Nickle / The Synoptic Gospels:Conflict and Consensus, Robert Stein/ Synoptic Gospels: Origins and Interpretations. Actually I was very surprised that that Wikapedia has an excellent article at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q_document This covers not only the (two source hypothesis) Q document theory…as well as discussing both Markan and Matthean priority. Also there synopsis of the Gospel of Matthew was excellent. As you actually study…and not just read items on the net, you find that the scholarly consensus still remains, even after over 1900 years, as to the authorship of the gospels being Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Even though Augustine of Hippo and other church fathers believed that Matthew was written first, most scholars believe that the Gospel of Mark (which is the shortest of the synoptic gospels), was written first and then Matthew and Luke used Mark as a source and then added additional material…both from a possibly additional document (Q document theory) as well as eye witnesses accounts. There is no consensus in true biblical scholarship that Mark wrote the first three gospels. For the one or two self-styled works of biblical criticism that would support that idea on the net, there are thousands of scholars over a 1500 year period who show that idea to be without scholarly merit. Here is the point: You cannot find very many websites on the moon that tell you it is spherical…but you can find plenty that talk about green cheese. Just because it is on the net, surely does not make it true, scholarly or accepted by others within that discipline or community. The two books above are excellent scholarly studies. John, the youngest of the disciples with Jesus wrote the Gospel of John, John 1 & 2 and Revelations. Each of the gospels are focused on different perspectives. Matthew, a disciple of Jesus, was obviously written originally in the Hebrew and then translated into koine Greek. The way they know this is the attempt to express Hebrew concepts and language into the Greek. The same difficulty is seen in the Greek translation of the Septuagint, conducted under the order of Alexander the Great. Some of the same anomalies are seen in the Greek in the book of Matthew. All of the rest of the gospels and the New Testament (except the last words of Christ on the cross/ Aramaic) were written in koine (common) Greek. Matthew, another Jewish disciple of Jesus, focuses on Jesus as he who came in fulfillment of the prophecies of the Old Testament. Jesus the Messiah. Mark, a Roman who was a young child when Jesus and the rest of the disciples had the last Passover in their home, saw Jesus through the eyes of Roman law and culture. Luke, the Greek, saw Jesus as the “perfect man”. Luke never knew Jesus, but like many historians used others writings and eye-witness accounts to put together his history. Paul never had anything to do with writing of the gospels, except like other shared what he knew of the life of Christ. The epistles (letters) of Paul are quite unique in there content, style of writing, symbology, consistency, language, and theology…not found in the gospel style and writings.
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Posted by journeyman
on 2008-06-02 04:00:08
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A repost by Journeyman and drivel from Unamuno. Nice. Speaking of standing in mirrors Unamuno, how does one accuse someone of name calling and then launch into an entire diatribe with nothing but.
Here is a FACT. You are an ass. You assume to know people and things but in your arrogance you show you know shit. Fact, you are a believer to weak to admit he believes because the small bit of intelligence (and I mean small) in the back of your mind doubts the impossiblities of the bible so you decalre yourself agnostic. Fact, did I mention your an ass already? You use words describing me as ignorant, arrogant and a bigot. From someone who has excuses for the culture of slavery and disdain with homosexuals, I would say this qualifies you for the bigot of the year award. I simply have no time for fools, and last time I checked, thats not a bigot. Arrogance? You reference your credentials at every turn as if you view yourself as some Stephen Hawking and you accuse me of arrogance? Show me when I listed any credentials? I have them, but I don't need to defend myself to a pompous blowhard like yourself. Ignorance? All I have to say is each time you defend a section of the bible you haven't researched or questioned you not only show your ignorance but your gullability.
And here is my final, intelligent and oh so impressive and well thought out rebuttel you so desire. Fuck you. :)
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Posted by freethinker
on 2008-06-02 11:32:16
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free i love u. lol i was up in arms about unamuno's post but i should have known u'd handle ur biz on that. lol i did particularly love his one comment about 'paying the price to have an opinion'....ummmm since when does it cost anything to have an opinion?? lmao talk about thinking he's better than everyone!!!
in my experience, Christians are the biggest hipocrites on the planet. They preach a good game but when it comes down to it, are the most narrow minded & biased individuals living. I am of course speaking in generalities, which I hate to do...far be it from me to stereotype but it's hard not to when the truth keeps sticking you in the eye. I am with you on not respecting someone who refuses not to push their own beliefs on those who don't share them & continue on to take offense when you retaliate in defense to their spiritual attacks, tryiing to make it sound like ur the bad guy. don't start with me & i won't start with you. respect me & i'll respect you. doesn't the Bible teach the golden rule??? HELLO!!! Do unto others.... blah blah blah. Doesn't the Bible teach you to forgive EVERYONE no matter what??? Aren't you supposed to follow God & Jesus' examples?? Would you, as a Christian, want or tolerate someone pushing Hinduism or Islam or Buddhism or Judaism on you day in & day out?? Tellling you that if you don't believe what they believe you are going to rot in hell??? (and subsequently add in the passive agressive & manipulative comment of 'i feel bad for you because you will never reach heaven or be with God') Does the Bible not state that as long as you are truly sorry for all of your sins during your life that you too can and WILL be forgiven on Judgement Day???
btw, i also agree with farsidde ;o)
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Posted by foxx_flie
on 2008-06-03 14:52:43
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Spoken like a true nonthinker. Of course you won't mention your creditionals. I understand you have a High School diploma....and thats it. Very impressive. All you have to do is actually address subject matter and enter into the discussion with other facts, observations and ideas? Why would you think I have a distain for those that are homsexual? I don't "distain" alcoholics? But I can still logically say it is not normal or healthy. If you say the same thing regarding Homosexual behavior...suddenly you are a homophobe. As you preciously stated it is neither benifical to the individual or society. Wow. How un-PC of you. And a least a half dozen people have tried to help you to understand...the belief that the slavery and servitude in the Old Testament..is the same as slavery in the New World..is the very twisted crap that promoted and justified slavery in America..and before in England. It was as they realized that they were NOT the same..that there were not just 2,000 years difference but an entire culture of differences that great abolitionists like Frederick Douglass or Sourjourner Truth, begane to join others like Wiberforce or Charles Finney to bring people together out of that evil darkness. No one is using the Bible and its culture to justify slavery. We are just saying...what was...was. And you can't seem to deal with that. By they way did you ever answer Journeyman answer regarding the gospels. I did not think so. Well written. You never seem to answer anyone if they are not agreeing with you. Why is that? He is right in that the question of authorship is still tossed around...but any serious scholar will see that that question has been answered by the best researchers and scholars a long time ago. It is far easier to call your father names, when you are the one preaching...not him. You seem to be the only one that brings up religion on these blogs. And you call me arrogant....but not youself. Journeyman mentioned to me about Condelessia Rice. She has a right to be arrogant. First PhD at 19. She has two. Speaks five languages. Concert pianist. Renown figure skater. When you work hard..and achieve much...you have a certain "right" at arrogance. It may not come across very well, but what bothers me is when people are arrogant... with no "right". They have not earned it. They have not spent the thousands of hours in study, experience and hard work. You are incredibly arrogrant. With your lack of education, do you understand why that could be an irritant?
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Posted by Unamuno
on 2008-06-04 20:07:44
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One more thing. You have said many times: Tou can't even define "Atheism". Even though Journeyman..and I think someone else has given in depth definitions. One appeared to have copied the Wikapedia site. So now I ask you. Define "Scientist" and "Skeptic". I believe they are very closly related. It is not a narrow, easily definable word. If one seeks truth...he must go whereever it takes him. Not the Newtonian definition of method...but an expanded defintion that even looks beyond current understanding of principle and laws. That is what theoritical physics is all about. Myth becomes science...and science becomes myth. Anything can be called religion...as anything can be called science. Somewhere in the middle is truth.
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Posted by Unamuno
on 2008-06-04 20:17:19
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Sorry, I am typing in the dark here.
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Posted by Unamuno
on 2008-06-04 20:18:20
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sighs..... I not only answered the questions about the gospels but I only can respond to certain ones. If you were as educated as you say you are then you must realize they have been changed many times in the past two thousand years by many sects.
I am glad you think you know the extent of my education. You are wrong of course but continue to think so mr joh hopkins if it makes you feel superior. I would wager I know levels upon levels on the history of Christianity, the horrors of it and the destruction it has caused than anything you know because you seem to ignore it, much like Journeyman. Answering select quotes fro Jesus, is irrelevent and pointless to answer. Since no one heard those quotes, they were passed down by one pshycotic decades after he supposedly even lived, I really don't need to even respond to them.
When it comes to Journeyman, though I love him, he is extremely gullable and hypocrital. Forgetful as well. Besides the AIDS being homo's punishment comment and the Smurfs being evil, comments like the end of days are near made in the early 80's, he hears Jesus's voice, has seen angels, prejudice against other religions and his sins to the opposite of what he preaches; there are many other things that make his opinion invalid. I explained in another post, which I am sure you didn't read, why I don't discuss science and history with people who believe animals can talk and people live 900 years. And who has said anything negative about Rice? Why bring up her credentials? What the fuck are you talking about? I know Journeyman cuts and posts things from Ted Haggard oops, maybe Oral Roberts..oops shit a racist...maybe something from Christian.net but I Gaurantee he has none of the books he quotes. In fact, I know this for a fact. If you want to go recommending books, try a direct letter to you and other Christians by Sam Harris, he says it perfectly. I wager you will google him and declare him something deragatory but if you have the sack, which I doubt, read it. It is a short book so you might get it.
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Posted by freethinker
on 2008-06-04 20:32:02
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Not one person here has given an in depth definition of the word atheist. It really isn't even a word. it used to be an insult and the current technical definition is a lack of belief but really, is not believeing in Leprechauns a word too? I am not a skeptic, I am not a disbeliever because there is nothing to disbelieve. "Atheists" are simply people who not only do not 'believe' in your 'god', they just know it is a fairy tale. There is no word for some who doesn't believe in Santa Claus? And also, again, no athiest is alike, to refer to it as a group or a religion is another example of not having a fucking clue what the word means. I would consider myself an antitheist if anything, because although I know there is know god, I loath the ones people believe in.
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Posted by freethinker
on 2008-06-04 20:38:25
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Oh and I forgot, Journeyman also believed they found the Ark of the Covenent at one time (he still might), thought they found Noah's ark and the thought they found Jesus's tomb. He also thinks the Turin shroud is real. Please. If you don't see me replying to cherry picked, insignificant points on rivers and some locations, forgive me. I have neither the time nor the patience
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Posted by freethinker
on 2008-06-04 21:40:41
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I wasn't going to answer Freethinker, as you have seen what that will lead to, but for the sake of thos reading this site, I will make a few points:
First, we all know the definition of "Atheism". I have done an in depth article at least twice on this site myself...and I have read others. We all know that is is both explicit or broad in definition both affirming the non-existence of God, rejecting theism or broadly defined as an absence in belief of deities. We all know it originated as a derogatory remark (perjorative epithet) for those persons or views that was in conflict with established religion. We all know it can be implicit or explicit, strong or weak, practical or theoretical...with even metaphysical concepts. It is your definition (by what you have written above) that deviates from established meanings. And yes, it is an established word.
Second, everyone seems to know the extent of your education, not really by anything except what you write, your attacks rather that substance, incredible generalities, lack of research, contexual errors, warped viewpoints of history, ambiquity, your bigotry...and yes...your lack of civility, speak for themselves. You mentioned as part of your attacks on Christians that Christianity is growing rapidly in the prisons due to lower itellegence. (If you believe they have all become Christians...you must believe that they are all innocent too...right? lol)First, you assume that career criminals are all of the lower IQ range. That is a fallacy. Often genus and insanity...are two sides of the same sword. I am not trying to say that there are lot of Hannibal Lecters around...but one must be careful of generalities. But I can show you studies where lack of civility and use of profanity can be linked to lower intelligence, lack of eduction and sociopathic tendencies.
Christianity is a journey. "When I was a child, I thought as a child...and spoke as a child." As a very young Christian I saw many things quite differently than I do now, both through experience...and through 30 years of study, including Seminary, active ministry, and life as a parent and husband. I explained to him before before, that I have never said AIDS was Gods curse upon homsexuals (homo? you said? ..your lack of tolerance is showing again). AIDS is a behavioral diease. If homosexual sexual behavior, prostitution, IV drug usage and infidelity stopped...the diease would almost completely disappear. Unamuno and Dr Steve can both confirm this. You will not find AIDS (except in very rare cases) if one is monogamous, faithful, hetroexual and don't use IV drugs. That is why the above catagories automatically defer you from giving blood in the United States. These actions some would call violating "natural law". The Bible calls them sin. And there are natural consequences for our actions. Does that clarify my position for everyone?
Yes, I have heard God. A still small voice of Gods leading, comfort and peace. Yes, I have had two experiences in my life that involved angels. Sorry, no wings...or bright lights.
Yes, I have a large library of technical and theological books. I got my original Pulpit Commentaries from an estate sale for $25.00 many years ago. From Systematic Theology, to Chemistry (which was my original Major in College....and yes, my Dad put me in that...and yes, it was incredible boring) I don't have a lot of fiction anymore, (like my son I enjoy Sci-Fi), but sold those all through my young marriage for money we needed as a family. Besides that I did not have room. I still have books in my VERY hot attic. I know my son hasn't read any of the great works of theology. I have suggested a few. My favorites: Karl Barth, John Wesley, Deitrek Bonhoeffer, T. F. Torrance, R.C. Sproul....and yes, Max Lucaddo. And yes, I have most of their collected works. The only thing he can do is make distortions, generalities, and bring up those that have stumbled along the way...like Jummy Swaggart and Ted Haggard. I am not as good as I ought to be. But I better than I used to be. Truly, I am not perfect...but I am forgiven. I really have no vices..(except a terrible sweet tooth and love of good coffee)...athough during the last 30 years I am had a couple of stumbles. I am glad they are behind me....and I became a better man. (not the sweets or coffee..lol)
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Posted by journeyman
on 2008-06-04 23:05:11
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First, a little archeology. Two tombs have been considered to have been the tomb of Joseph Arimathia used to bury Jesus after the cruxifiction. One is at the Church of the Holy Sepulcure...the other the Garden Tomb. Both have points in favor of their authenticity. Second, the Ark of the Covenant has been sought by many since its disappearance before the Babylonian capivity. One theory is that the Ark was taken from Jerusalem by Prince Menelik of Ethiopia (the son of King Soloman and the Quen of Sheba). The second is that it was either hidden in chambers below the Jerusalem Temple mount or taken in an ancient tunnel that might run as long as 18 miles in the Judean desert. This tunnel (a long dries up anciet underground river)...is presently being serached for my archeologists. (Kelly Hollowell, JD, PhD, a scientist, patent attorney, adjunct law professor of bioethis). My bet is that it was hidden and sealed in a chamber deep under the Temple Mount during the seige of the Temple by Nebuchanezzar. And if it is found..it will start a war. The possible find of Noaks Ark on Ararat, were reported both in the 80's and 90's. Definitive proof is yet to be shown as the Turkish government is has closed all access to the mountain.
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Posted by journeyman
on 2008-06-04 23:36:45
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Ahhh I have little time but I was hoping you would bring up those two. First the Church of the Holy Sepulchre was originally a temple for Aphrodite and Constantinoples mother, ironically named 'Saint' Helena, a greedy, bloodthisty women but not as bad as her son, commisioned it. Hardly a holy site.
Noah's Ark on Mount Ararat in Turkey, has been discredited for years. You have said the same story for twenty years without looking up any new information. The mountain is open, no ark is there, it was a scam by a business man to reenter the country, even creationary geologists have done samples on the 'wood' found in a cave on the mountain and determined it volcanic tuff. It is now acknowledged the finding was a ploy to increase tourism.
Amazingly, the same 'saint' found The Garden Tomb, complete with three nails and the True Cross!!!! Here is where the obsurdity of this beigns, Eusebius of Caesarea said the Holy Church was the site of the buriel, which just so happens to be the same site Helena discovered with the nails and cross!! They also said the Holy Church was Calvary!!!! So he was buried there, died there AND before that Aphrodite was worshipped there. Amazing huh!
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Posted by freethinker
on 2008-06-05 00:54:08
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Okay, in response to your first post. Hey pops, How many college credits do I have? What college am I enrolled in now? What is my major? How close am I to a bachelor's or even a masters and what do I plan to do? How many countries have I seen? How many holy sites [you consider] have I visited that you haven't? The Temple and wailing wall come to mind. Do you know anything or are they assumptions. Your wife knows but we both know you and her don't communicate so well. Probably because you hate, what was the word you always used but now deny using, fags I believe it was; and you think her brother, mu uncle might be in hell for shooting himself in the head.
So you might want to double check my hisotry, because I know so litte, am eneducated and a savage but here goes.
Secondly, YOU obviously haven't read any studies done on the beliefs of people in jail compared to free citizens, it seems you are saying the people in jail are smarter than the people who are free! I won't try to make sense of that.
Also, your hearing of voices, hallucinations and visitations are signs of delusions and Schizophrenia, not evidence of god. As the quote goes, "A walk through a sanitarium shows that faith accomplishes nothing".
My civility? Is your opinion. You have your prejudices as I have mine, I hate fat people, so what? I hate the smell of Indians because the food they eat, so what? Everyone does (escept maybe I am more honest and admit it). If you think me saying fuck a lot is "uncivil", so be it. It doesn't change any point I have though or me as a person, it is just a vernacular I choose to use. I don't like societies concept of what is acceptable a lot (but for someone who rails against the evil liberals, you sure do!) I choose not to be PC and say what's on my mind, you want to be a sheep (ironic as you are in the 'flock...lol' go right ahead.
AIDs, another thing you have wrong. It is a common stigma in developed countires that AIDS is a homosexual disease, primarily (or fags as you call them). Heard of Africa? http://abs.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/42/7/1175 contains several books on the stigma of homosexuals and AIDS. While there is a higher number but not tha high no that anal sex is often pracitces among women and men, it is MUCH lower than in the eighties, also attributed to introveous drug use but sexual protection (another thing the church is against). Women are actually more succeptable to AIDS by 81%. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1669925, and Africa is where it is highest, MUCH higher than the US (oh thanks Mother Teresa!). Guess what, most of them are straight! There are studies upon studies, I could post twenty if you like from the CDC to Gay and straight medical journals about how in the 90's and the new century AIDS is becoming much more equal to straights and gays. It really isn't tht horrible a disease anymore with all the dvances in medicince (which again, the church is often against).
So besides questioning my inteligence and experience, care to share yours? Probably with a bit of embelshment becuase of the ego factor. Two years as a cop and thirty years later still claiming law enforsment? One semester or two in a junior college and still claiming classes taken almost fourty years ago are applicable? A seminary taken around 28 years ago? How many countires have you seen? Canada, and maybe Mexico? Yet you are the expert on Isreal and Europe?
And the Ark, so many threories, throught the ages, much like Area 51 (which is probably truer) and you jave the ability to switch from one to the other. Amazing.
Unowhatver and Dr, Phil asked why I don't answer questions. Do I see any answers to the obvious stealing of century old religions from different cultures from everything to virgin births, reseructions, Raptures ET.
Gods like this
Mithra was a Persian/Indian god of the 6th century BC. Apparently, he was born of a virgin on December 25th (as were the gods Osiris, Horus, Marduk, Sol, Saturn, and Apollo), a birth witnessed by shepherds, and by gift-bearing Magi who had followed a falling star. He became known as the Light / Good Shepherd / Son of God, and was said to be able to raise the dead, cast out devils, and cure the blind, lame, and sick. Like the god Attis, Mithra was sacrificed at the spring equinox (Easter, or ‘Eostre’, being the ancient goddess of spring), rose up after three days, and ascended to paradise (a Persian word). Prior to this, Mithra celebrated a Last Supper with his 12 disciples (representing the 12 signs of the zodiac). In memory of this, his followers would 'eat' their god in the form of wafers and bread (like the followers of Osiris, Adonis, and Dionysus) – bread marked with the cross, a symbol borrowed from another god, Tammuz. Mithra’s worshippers also believed there would be a ‘day of judgment’ when sinners and the 'unbaptised' would be dragged down to darkness… Born of a virgin
As we have seen, the virgin birth story is neither unique nor original to Christianity. Traditionally, a claim of virgin birth was a way of conveying the authenticity and importance of a god (and sometimes even mortals, such as Julius Caesar)
to a largely uneducated audience.
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Posted by freethinker
on 2008-06-05 01:56:05
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You really are not very bright.
1)The Temple of Venus...not Aphrodite (Latin not Greek...you need to read more) was built by the Romans after the disperation of the Jews (70 AD)and the destruction of much of Jerusalem, Hadrian. Constantine commissioned his mother to build churches on sites commemotated the life of Christ. The "holiness" of the spot has NOTHING to do with what was built there afterward...or even before in millenia past. It has to do with the event that occured there. It could have a McDonalds there...and it would make no difference. Was that written too far above your level? Any answer ______?
2) Many reports have been made as to sightings on Ararat. Your ignorance of history and your prejudice that any archeologist seeking evidence of the Noaks Ark...is a scam artist is depical and just again such shows your bigotry. (Would you feel the same way about evolution with the fraudulent drawing of Haeckel's recapulation drawings, faudulaent skulls of :Java man, Pitdown man, Nebraska man, Peking man, a number of skull so suppossed Neandrthal, a numerous fossils....??) Even sightings by Russian soliders and explorers over the last century. Wood taken from the 2007 expedition (controlled by the Turkish government) was inconclusive and some have indicated fraud for local tourism. Wood taken from artifacts at monasteries at the base of Aararat have been found to fit the geological time frame. Most fozzilized and imbedded with a black "pitch", but it is impossible to confirm it is from the same site.
You have not even finshed your Associate at the local Jr. College..and fill the sites with Philosophy and other non-science related topics. Both of them you can't understand as you are viewing them through the eyes of bigotry and hatred.
Your visits to sites while on leave as a tourist, were as SuzieQn corrrctly put, not as a scholorly visit...but finding bars, recovering from a hangover, getting drunk with a cardinal at a bar near the Vatican and looking for prostitues. Studies have been done for over a hundred years in Criminalistics and Sociology, regarding prison population. In many ways your not much differnt then them.. Except they are probably better read...and of higher intellegence.
Your opionion that anyone that ever could hear God is a Schizophrenic..is typical of your bigoted mindset and not in the opinion of the the vast majority. You need to read more Karl Marx.
You are an idiot when it comes to AIDS, For everyone of the Homosexuel Advocasy sites you put out...there are a thousands studies from the top Physicans in the world. Change the behavior..the diease almost goes away by itself. No church (except Mary Baker Eddy's: Christian Science...which is not Christian) is against the use of medications. Again the ravings of an idiot.
I finished by third year of College in the Air Force, before my sons was born, and after I came to Fort Worth, worked two and sometimes three jobs to provide adequately for my family. I then focused ny attention on Law Enoforcement schools: University of Oklahoma Police Academt, Peace Officer Training Service College, Lackland AFB Law Enforcement Academy (these while in UASF) North Central Texas Regional Police Academy. My studies continued until I had the chance to go on a grant to the North Park Institute of Biblical Studies which worked as a sattelite with Trinity Valley Theological Seminary and Southwestern Theological Seminary. I Graduated in 1988. My studies continued and served in local ministries teaching and studing. I later would continue in management studies finishing my CPM (Certified Professional Manager) and teaching for the National Management Association. Thirty years of reading everything I can get my hands on. The besy way to learn is to teach...if forces you to study. Yhe rest of the drivel is the product of a sick, ranting, bigoted mind and not worth comment.
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Posted by journeyman
on 2008-06-05 13:43:07
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Journeyman is correct. Homsexual ...sexual behavior results in high rates of "intentinal parasites, fecal comtamination, oral herpes and gonoreha...and yes, higher average of AIDS. The rectum is basically large veins very near the surface (which is why we get hemmroids/ varicose veins of the rectum). This allows passage of the AIDS virus easily into the bloodstream.
If the behavior changed...that, protitution and IV drug usage..the diease would almost disappear.
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Posted by DrSteve
on 2008-06-05 13:52:55
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