Time to worry about Pakistan's nuclear weapons

[mrmacq]

Originally Posted by lizbethrose

Thank you, Law. This whole thread bothered me because of the negativism shown by our friends in Afghanistan and India. They're nice people, but they don't seem to know that much about how any government works.

I still think our system of developmental aid sucks. Maybe working on that (--"reforming it?") would cut back on our government spending.

ewwwh so inappropriate of you
"they dont know how any government works?"
yet theyve had for longer?
ewwwh dear
hows that cow paddy
and to boot
"they are nice people
but..............."
whoah????
id be interested in your views of the chinese next

[lizbethrose]

QUOTE=mrmacq;526353]ewwwh so inappropriate of you
"they dont know how any government works?"
yet theyve had for longer?
ewwwh dear
hows that cow paddy
and to boot
"they are nice people
but..............."
whoah????
id be interested in your views of the chinese next[/quote]

I based your first quoted sentence on how CommonMan responded to me. I could have gone on t say that he seemed surprised that I'd say something that could be interpreted as a slam against my government, but we can do that, can't we?

Neither Commonman nor Afghanthought seem to know that this (our various 'deals') is how most governments work. It has nothing to do with anything that's 'right,' 'fair,' or 'just. It has only to do with what's in the 'best interests' of the governments in question.

Yes, Commonman and Afghanthougt are 'nice' people in that they're making an attempt to understand us while I'm trying to make an attempt to understand them. IMO, more people should try to do that instead of hitting them broadside with hatred.

As for the Chinese, I only have one contact with a Chinese web poster--Chengu. There was a second one, but he left the forum--so far. I also have several Chinese immigrant friends.

Chengu's concern is for the pollution in China. He's sent pictures of piles of garbage left in streets--polluted water, barren landfills, top soil stripped from land in order to dig for minerals. He deplores all that because of what it's doing to his country. He knows there's nothing that we can do--he just needs to vent. And he does so every 3-4 months.

That's fine, as far as I'm concerned. I try to give him encouragement and I think he knows that's all I can do,

I'd much rather sit in a virtual cool, quiet garden sipping mint tea and talking about 'things' than spend any time blasting people off of either the virtual or the real face of the earth.

Of course, your mileage may vary.

[mrmacq]

"try to give him encouragement "
nope same uneducated (you said it yourself) misunderstanding of the cultures that abound
ya really think he needs encouragement dear?
they/he live in the midst of things
not behind the curtain
they are privy by proximity

"Of course, your mileage may vary"
oh so sad dear
to hear that from you
i trust its a comfortable mattress
say la vee

[mrmacq]

and this is what i missed
Neither Commonman nor Afghanthought seem to know that this (our various 'deals') is how most governments work. It has nothing to do with anything that's 'right,' 'fair,' or 'just. It has only to do with what's in the 'best interests' of the governments in question
.how most governments work
bullshit
this is how your gov works
and thats the problem
that shant be the norm if we wish to fix this

[dixon76710]

Originally Posted by mrmacq

and this is what i missed
Neither Commonman nor Afghanthought seem to know that this (our various 'deals') is how most governments work. It has nothing to do with anything that's 'right,' 'fair,' or 'just. It has only to do with what's in the 'best interests' of the governments in question
.how most governments work
bullshit
this is how your gov works
and thats the problem
that shant be the norm if we wish to fix this

Pure speculation, your belief that the threat from Pakistan would be any less if we had not provided aid. Very real possibility that the government could be driven from power by the Islamic fundamentalist, without our aid. Very real possibility that without our aid, the Pakistani situation would be even worse.

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by mrmacq

It has only to do with what's in the 'best interests' of the governments in question
.how most governments work
bullshit
this is how your gov works

No, dear. That's how ALL governments work, including the (gasp) Canadian government. This gives ever-so-much more credibility to Lizbethrose's comment about those having no understanding about the workings of government.

[commonman]

@ Lawmage

Thank you for your post. I'll take it as unbiased and most importantly "to the point" answer to my questions.

@ lizbethrose

This whole thread bothered me because of the negativism shown by our friends in Afghanistan and India. They're nice people, but they don't seem to know that much about how any government works.

Was these really needed or they have any relevance to the subject? I'm sure you have the innermost knowledge of even the most secured files of CIA but your logic that just because "someone raise questions and does not agree with you in every thing you say, his world politics Hard disc drive is empty is not right and rude".

Sitting in couple of thousand kms away from the D-zone, you might feel positive about US policies and offering regarding Pakistan, but sitting next to the zone and seeing history is being repeated, I'm not. Last time it was Afghanistan that has to pay the price, I'm worried that this time it might be someone else in the east. But that's my view.

I based your first quoted sentence on how CommonMan responded to me. I could have gone on t say that he seemed surprised that I'd say something that could be interpreted as a slam against my government, but we can do that, can't we?

We in India slam our govt everyday...issue ranging from being soft against China to train's toilet seat. It is absolutely normal for the world's oldest democracy to have the same or even more freedom of speech. That is the main base of a democracy. There is nothing new or surprising about that.

Your statement reminds me of the following funny quote -

A worldwide survey was conducted by the UN. The only question asked was: "Would you please give your honest opinion about solutions to the food shortage in the rest of the world?"

The survey was a huge failure.

In Africa, they didn't know what "food" meant.
In Eastern Europe they didn't know what "honest" meant.
In Western Europe they didn't know what "shortage" meant.
In China they didn't know what "opinion" meant.
In the Middle East they didn't know what "solution" meant.
In South America they didn't know what "please" meant.
And in the US, they didn't know what "the rest of the world" meant.

While discussing with you I didn't show any disrespect to your knowledge and I expected the same from you.

[dixon76710]

More than 30,000 Pakistani soldiers launched a long-expected assault on the Taliban lair of South Waziristan yesterday.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009...gainst-taliban

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan on Monday offered rewards worth five million dollars for information leading to the capture, dead or alive, of the country's Taliban warlord Hakimullah Mehsud and 18 lieutenants....
Pakistan ground troops, backed by jet fighters and helicopter gunships, are pressing a major offensive against TTP strongholds into a third week in which they have massed outside Taliban bastions and fought in streets.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/w...ow/5188247.cms

Taliban leader's stronghold falls to Pakistani army
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009...taliban-kotkai

SHAWANGAI, Pakistan -- An alleged member of the Hamburg, Germany, terror cell linked to the Sept. 11 attacks is believed to be among al Qaeda leaders helping the Taliban fight Pakistani forces in South Waziristan, Pakistani authorities said Thursday.

A German passport belonging to Said Bahaji, a close associate of Sept. 11 lead hijacker Mohammed Atta in the 2001 attacks, was among documents recovered this week by Pakistani troops from an abandoned militant compound in Shawangai.

The mountain village in South Waziristan was used as an al Qaeda and Taliban command base until as recently as this week,
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1256...s_Most_Popular

[mrmacq]

Originally Posted by dixon76710

Pure speculation, your belief that the threat from Pakistan would be any less if we had not provided aid. Very real possibility that the government could be driven from power by the Islamic fundamentalist, without our aid. Very real possibility that without our aid, the Pakistani situation would be even worse.

your putting words in my mouth dude
its the type of aid thats given
thats bothersome
as mentioned before air superiority fighters are not required to fight the insurgents
hell a-10s would be overkill
some simple "sandys" would be more realistic
the selling of the F16s will only serve to continue an arms race between india and pakistan
the sole winner?
why your very own defense contractors
hmmm
didnt see that coming

[mrmacq]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

No, dear. That's how ALL governments work, including the (gasp) Canadian government. This gives ever-so-much more credibility to Lizbethrose's comment about those having no understanding about the workings of government.

oh really?

Canada will expand aid to Pakistan, notably to bolster the weak public school system that has left a void to be filled by fundamentalist madrassas, as Ottawa increasingly views the country's stability as key to success in Afghanistan.

In Pakistan Wednesday, International Co-operation Minister Bev Oda pledged $25-million for food, water and emergency shelter for refugees who fled a Pakistani military offensive against Taliban insurgents four months ago.

Many of the more than two million people who left their homes in the Swat Valley in April are returning. But the huge numbers of refugees have placed a strain on local resources, and reconstruction efforts will be costly.

“They're rebuilding police stations, judiciary, making sure that power is available, water is available, gas is available,” said Ms. Oda, who visited the Jalozai Internally Displaced Persons camp Tuesday.

In addition to the $25-million in emergency aid, Canada will expand its longer-term development assistance to Pakistan, Ms. Oda said, as it joins other countries in linking success against the Taliban insurgency in Afghanistan – the largest single recipient of Canadian aid – with stability in Pakistan.

“Afghanistan is Canada's biggest mission,” she said. “We do share with the United States and other countries working in Afghanistan [a recognition] of the importance of Pakistan to achieve the objectives we want to achieve in Afghanistan.

“There will be enhanced engagement,” she said.

Ms. Oda emphasized aid for public education as a priority. Canadian aid to Pakistan – $43-million in 2007-08 – already funds a teacher-training program in Karachi and primary-school education in some rural areas.

“We've been very successful in our teacher training, and good-quality education within the public system of education is one of the key aspects of ensuring that those in the border areas and those throughout Pakistan are going to benefit from Canada's contribution,” Ms. Oda said.

Pakistan's under-funded and patchy public education system is seen as one reason for the growing influence of madrassas, religious schools run by Muslim clerics.

Those schools offer free or low-cost education in poor areas where public schools are rundown or non-existent, and enroll an estimated 5 per cent of the country's pupils.

Some madrassas are viewed as training grounds for Taliban insurgents, although experts note that only a small minority of the 15,000 or more madrassas in Pakistan preach violence or serve as Taliban recruiting grounds.

“A lot more attention has to be paid to education. Especially in sort of far-flung areas, underdeveloped areas. The establishment of schools, and giving opportunities for children to go to schools,” Mian Gul Akbar Zeb, Pakistan's high commissioner to Canada, said in an interview.

“The madrassas do sort of attract people from a lot of the backward areas in Pakistan. So greater attention has to be paid to primary education.”



and this benefits canadas "best interests"how?
we're not getting rich off them
all we wish is stability throughout the region