Links View all RaymanT's friends Login Find all Posts by RaymanT Find all threads started by RaymanT Status N/A Statistics Profile Views: 53 Friends: 0 Files: 0 Last Update: 2008-05-12 Signup Date: 2008-04-27 Rating: N/A (info) Activity points: (info) Total Posts 0 Refferals 0 Last Forum Activity 2008-04-27 05:58:15 PM Forum Rank Junior Member Personal Information Name Raymond T Washington  Birthday 0000-00-00 Send a private message to RaymanT Gender Male Orientation Straight Relationship Status Single Religion Christian Location Atlanta Georgia United States About Me No information available Recent blog entries    Biblical slavery    Slavery and the Bible Recent Surveys No survey entries found Recent blog comments The people are right on this site. You really don’t get it. I understand racism. Unlike you, I have lived through it all my life. I have felt the pain of bigotry and hate. And yet its funny…you…a little uneducated white boy, are the one pulling the race card just because you are incapable of thinking outside of a one dimensional historical perspective. I also understand history is written by people of that time..through their experiences and cultures. I am not an apologist for slavery whether during the Biblical period or any other time in history, but I am not so ignorant or so have had my reason so blinded by religious hatred and bigotry, like you, that I cannot see the obvious differences in cultures and history. Do you believe having sex with a 12 year old girl is right? Of course not! In our culture we would say it is depravity, but thousands of years ago it was a cultural norm. What do you think of an absolute monarchy? We see it today as intolerable. Total forced subjection to another with no individual rights except as given by the monarch. But if you were to ask one of those subjects…it would all depend on whether he was a good king…or a bad king. The Bible never encouraged slavery…it just was written during a time when various types of servitude was a part of the culture of that society. The Bible does not address changing of cultural norms or social reform. It deals with the changing of the human heart…and then the changed man…makes those social reforms. Mans society becomes a reflection of his spiritual growth. The Bible deals with relationships…between God and man…and between each other. Moses wrote in Exodus 21:16, “He that stealeth a man and selleth him or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death”. Solomon writes in Proverbs 3:31: “Envy thou not the oppressor, and choose thou none of his ways”. Isaiah writes, “Is not this the fast I have chosen, to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke.?” It was those who looked at the Bible as just a bunch of facts, stories and history…who had never allowed God to change their hearts…who twisted the scriptures to justify incredible evil. This slavery of the New World was not an act of mercy to bring impoverished into your home or to save you from an enemies death after a war. It was not part of cultural marriage traditions or a payment of debt or honor. It was racial evil. Families torn apart, torture, oppression, rape and death. It was for the financial gain of the elite. Do you have any idea of how incredibly foolish you sound? From your language and your inability to reason, I assume you are not just uneducated your not very bright. Have you ever read any books in Theology so you could begin to understand the message of the scriptures rather than taking little bits and pieces away from the context in which they were written. You hold several pieces of a puzzle and complain that they make no sense…and yet refuse to stand up and put the pieces with the rest to get a whole picture. Would you say that Socrates, Aristotle, Virgil, Cicero…etc..etc.. are all “a bit outdated”, “written for a different time and no longer applicable”? I am not stupid enough to think that. You might be. And lastly…you know nothing of my heritage but what you have picked up on one liners on an internet site. One of the earliest abolitionists was abducted some 1,500 years ago from Britian and enslaved by invading marauders. He eventually escaped and years later would return to this land to share his faith in Christ and to fight the evil of slavery. This young Briton named Patricius died an Irishman named Patrick. I know my heritage whether as a Christian or as a black man. You know neither. Read some Fredrerick Douglass or some of the many black Christian abolishionists and maybe you can learn something. (posted in More on slavery) I guess I mention my credentials, not just because I have some...and you don't, but because I have had to work harder to get them.. And I am thankful to have had the opportunity to achieve what I have for my family. You mention context and yet you refuse to note the time, the culture, the traditions, or to define what you call slavery. I have lived all my life with racial discrimination. I have lived in the effects of racial slavery in this country. You DO take the biblical slavery out of context. By your definition...a person placing himself under servitude to another, where if he leaves he can be placed in prison, where he is under the control of another for a specific period...is slavery. Actually I just described the US Military. (I was Army) History is full of people that have perverted and twisted the scriptures to justify evil. You still have not figured out that the Bible has NOTHING to do with social reform. It has everything to do with a reformation of the heart. Slavery (Servitude…both voluntary or involuntary) was part of the culture of those times…just like marriage rituals where they would sell their daughters….. or a person placing themselves as a slave to another for payment of debt or to repay an act of honor. To compare the racial slavery of the New World to Biblical slavery could not be more out of context. Your perspective is clouded by your obvious religious bigotry. If you had a choice between those that remained after wars or those in poverty of being taken as slaves….or dying. I guess you would prefer death. And that was the way it was. Biblical slavery was often an act of mercy. Bringing them into their own clan or family. It was in biblical slavery that Joseph was raised to a position of authority next to Pharaoh himself and in that position saved his family from famine. It was in slavery that the Hebrew children grew into a great nation in Goshen until delivered by another slave…Moses…who had been an adopted Prince of Egypt. God did not “approve” of the terrible actions of the Egyptians on their Hebrew slaves…but used it to temper them and prepare them for their deliverance. Ruth was a Moabite, who’s Jewish husband had died. All she had was her mother-in-law, Naomi. She placed herself under voluntary servitude to her husbands near kinsman, Boaz to “redeem” her. Her story is one of courage, loyalty and faith. And she became a direct linage to the Messiah. Don’t try to compare modern racial slavery from that in the Bible…unless you have any idea of what you are talking about. (posted in More on slavery) Slavery and the Bible I am a black American living in Atlanta, Georgia. I am college degreed with a MBA and work as an executive with a major corporation in Atlanta. I like other black Americans would probably had an easier time in my career if I had been born white, but I have learned in life what doesn’t kill me…makes me stronger. A preacher once told me that the sweetest water…is that water pushed through a mile of solid rock. I do not consider myself a victim. I am thankful for opportunity to achieve what I have. And yes, I am a Christian. So you ask, “How could God condone slavery”? A question birthed in ignorance and bias. Why do you think there are so many black Christian abolitionists prior to the Civil War? Abolitionists in Britain and the Colonies had a strong religious base. In the United States it had began with the Quakers and was also influenced by people converted during the Second Great Awakening led by Charles Finny in the 1830’s. Slavery, especially as seen since the its beginnings in the slave trade as early as the 1400’s…and the first slaves brought to Virginia in 1619, was an incredible evil. Some people though, have taken the Bible completely out of context. Slavery of the Old Testament was completely different than the racial slavery of the New World. Usually voluntary, individuals placed themselves in servitude to another for indebtedness, family honor, security or protection. Often tied to marriage traditions or an act of mercy in cases of extreme poverty or those left after a war, it was part of the culture of the period. Mass taking of captives as slaves at the ends of wars was done by nations and usually for building and farming. The Hebrews in Egypt for 400 years and Jews for 70 years in Babylonian captivity are examples of this. Yes, there were acts of cruelty and abuse…but those were rare in voluntary servitude. A girl taken into a family as a slave would be a burden to her master is she was not well taken cared for. Loss of virginity was a shame and dishonor to the entire family. Journeyman’s suggestion for scholarly review was excellent. Glenn Miller sure did his research. www.christian-thinktank.com/qnoslave.html One of the problems some people have is taking the Bible out of the culture in which it was written. God spoke to people of that culture, of that time, with that history and with those traditions. Individuals who were ignorant, by our standards of knowledge….superstitious…and barbaric. Just like now…God met them right where they were. As a great theologian wrote….the word of God…in the words of men. The message of the Bible is not just the final destination. It is in the journey. It is not about social reform. It is about reforming of the heart….and the rest takes care of itself. 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